Difference between revisions of "User talk:Peter Z./History Notes"

Latest revision as of 09:38, 21 July 2011

Republic of Ragusa & Republic of Venice became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia

Latin/Illyrian/Slavic communities history of the historic Republic of Ragusa & Republic of Venice became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia.

“

Quote by contemporary historian Danijel Dzino: Medieval studies in Croatia and in most of the former Yugoslav space were firmly rooted in political history and suffered from isolationism and lack of interest in foreign scholarship. In the communist era, especially after the 1960s, Marxist ideology and national and Yugoslav political-ideological frameworks strongly impacted on the research into medieval history in Croatia ^[1]

”

Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families.
Republic of Venice was set up by Latin families.

(Venice acquired Slavic & other Latin populations through conquering)

Slavic communities later became part of these City States, which later became Republics.

Famous mixed marriages within these communities :

Roger Joseph Boskovich (Republic of Ragusa)
Fausto Veranzio (Republic of Venice)

Their family heritage were Croatian & Italian.

Austro-Hungarian census 1816 registered: 66 000 Italian speaking people among the 301 000 inhabitants of Dalmatia. (ref from: Montani, Carlo. Venezia Giulia, Dalmazia - Sommario Storico - An Historical Outline)

Republic of Ragusa

Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. The Republic's city, Ragusa (today called Dubrovnik) was established in the 7th century, post Slavic and Avar invasions. The refugees from Epidaurum (a Roman city) built the settlement in Dalmatia, today in southernmost modern Croatia. Over the centuries the City State-Ragusa started to have relations with the Slavic hinterland, then called Red Croatia (this term for the region ceased to be used from the 11th century onwards). Ragusa itself became an independent state in 1358.

The Slavs,^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5] some time in the middle ages started to be part of the Republic's population. The 1667 Dubrovnik earthquake,^[6] which destroyed the greater part of Dubrovnik has been cited as a turning point for the Republic's ethnic population make up. The Slavic population in the Republic would have been Romanised (adopted Latin culture).

In John Van Antwerp Fine's book "When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans" the population of the Republic in the 15-century was describe as mainly Slavic. This is very plausible, (that by the 15 century) the surrounding area of the city of Dubrovnik, the Slavs would have been in the majority.^[7]

There is a theory that the actual Croatisation (Pan-Slavism) ^[8] of the region started to happen in the 19-century, with the Republic becoming part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (then called the Habsburg Monarchy). The second theory is that it was much earlier.

Sir John Gardner Wilkinson

Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (October 5, 1797 – October 29, 1875) was an English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century. He is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology". He was in Dubrovnik in 1848, this is what he wrote in his "Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina":

“

Their language though gradually falling into Venetianisms of the other Dalmatians towns, still retains some of that pure Italian idiom, for which was always noted. (page 362)

”

“

Italian is spoken in all the seaports of Dalmatia, but the language of the country is a dialect of the Slavonic, which alone is used by peasants in the interior.(page 4)

”

Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide)

Dalmatia-The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide from COSIMO books and publications New York USA):

“

Two hundred years later that, is, early in the tenth century you might have heard Slavish and Latin spoken had you walked in the streets of Ragusa, just as you hear Slavish and Italian today; for as times of peace followed times of war, the Greek and Roman inhabitants of Rausium intermarried with the surrounding Slavs, and so a mixed race sprang up, a people apart from the rest of Dalmatia. (p121) ^[9]

”

Editor's notes: It's quite possible that the Republic was for centuries a multicultural and multiethnic society! It's ruling class were of mostly of Latin decent, but not all! Peter Z. 06:13, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine

Neretljani here

Contradict himself here

Plus:spiritus-temporis.com here

Croatia DNA-Test

Taken from www.igenea.com ^[10]

Illyrian People 34%
Slav 20%
Celtic 18%
Teuton 12%
Phoenician 8%
Hellenic People 8%

(Editors notes: Oh Dear!)

References

^ Becoming Slav, Becoming Croat: Identity Transformations in Post-Roman and and Early Medieval Dalmatia by Danijel Dzino (p43)
^ When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans by John Van Antwerp Fine
^ Venice, a Maritime Republic by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24
^ Venice and its Story by Thomas Okey
^ Great Powers and Geopolitical Change by Jakub J. Grygiel
^ Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries by Eystein Sverre Husebye
^ When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans: by John Van Antwerp Fine
^ Encyclopedia Britannica:19th-century movement that recognized a common ethnic background among the various Slav peoples of eastern and east central Europe and sought to unite those peoples for the achievement of common cultural and political goals. The Pan-Slav movement originally was formed in the first half of the 19th century by West and South Slav intellectuals, scholars, and poets, whose peoples were at that time also developing their sense of national identity.
^
Dalmatia: The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (p121)
- "DALMATIA: The Land Where East Meets West is MAUDE M. HOLBACH's second book of travel in Eastern Europe. First published in 1910, this is an anthropological travel journal of an often-overlooked kingdom"
- Web site: www.cosimobooks.com
^ www.igenea.com

[1] Becoming Slav, Becoming Croat: Identity Transformations in Post-Roman and and Early Medieval Dalmatia by Danijel Dzino (p43)

[2] When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans by John Van Antwerp Fine

[3] Venice, a Maritime Republic by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24

[4] Venice and its Story by Thomas Okey

[5] Great Powers and Geopolitical Change by Jakub J. Grygiel

[6] Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries by Eystein Sverre Husebye

[7] When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans: by John Van Antwerp Fine

[8] Encyclopedia Britannica:19th-century movement that recognized a common ethnic background among the various Slav peoples of eastern and east central Europe and sought to unite those peoples for the achievement of common cultural and political goals. The Pan-Slav movement originally was formed in the first half of the 19th century by West and South Slav intellectuals, scholars, and poets, whose peoples were at that time also developing their sense of national identity.

[9] Dalmatia: The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (p121)
"DALMATIA: The Land Where East Meets West is MAUDE M. HOLBACH's second book of travel in Eastern Europe. First published in 1910, this is an anthropological travel journal of an often-overlooked kingdom"

Web site: www.cosimobooks.com

[10] "DALMATIA: The Land Where East Meets West is MAUDE M. HOLBACH's second book of travel in Eastern Europe. First published in 1910, this is an anthropological travel journal of an often-overlooked kingdom"

[11] Web site: www.cosimobooks.com

[10] www.igenea.com

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[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

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[9]

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@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{GKAnt}}
+== Republic of Ragusa & Republic of Venice became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia ==
-== Peter Z's Notes ==
-*'''''Firstly''''' it appears to me that the region (former Yugoslavia) has problems with interpreting multicultural and ''multiethnic'' history (& societies)!
-====If we put aside political correctness, concernig Korcula's history====
-If we put aside political correctness, one could ask the question what happened to the '''Latin families''' <ref>The island became part of the Roman province of Dalmatia</ref> on the island of Korcula (Corcyra Nigra) in the 8th century when the Croatians invaded.
-Events could have unfolded (& most probably did) which led to them being attacked and killed. The survivors could have fled from Korcula to Ragusa (Dubrovnik), then a place of refuge. Maybe some survived and remained on the island. It’s quite possible that the old town of Korcula was fortified and held out against the invaders. The town’s location is well placed to defend it self. [http://www.apartmanija.hr/slike/slike_gradovi/korcula.jpg Photo link]. Over the centuries it has had a strategic military position. The town of Korcula and Dubrovnik may have had very similar early histories.
-Judging by what happened to the Roman cities of Dalmatia; ''Epidaurum'', ''Narona'' and ''Salona'' (which were then part of the Byzantine Empire), these towns were '''destroyed'''. The Avari participated in these events too. This pattern of aggression of the Slavic tribes in conquering new territory must have continued during the following decades (& centuries) of the dark ages. In this historic period it is recorded that many of the churches on the island of Korcula were destroyed (then rebuilt at a later stage). <ref>According to recent studies done at the University of Zadar, Croatians on the island of Korcula accepted Christianity fully in the 14th and 15th Century.  Reference from: University of Zadar-Sociogeographic Transformation of the Western Part of Korcula Island by Lena Mirosevic-2008/page 161</ref>
-It is likely that the new population settled in the centre of the island (Cara). The centre of the island had its strategic qualities which allowed protection on all sides from attack by sea. It also had fertile land which allowed cultivation.  After the invasion of Slavic Tribes the region  stabilised to a certain extent. The Byzantine Empire and the ''Republic of Venice''  started to exert a political influence over the region and it’s new peoples. These events have been recorded historically by both Empires in chronicles of the time.
-The Latin population eventually started to return to the island in larger numbers thus creating a historic multicultural and multiethnic society.
-Dalmatians of Latin ancestry brought ''Mediterranean cultural'' to the Slavs. Christianity was one aspect of this. In essence the Croatians on the island were '''Romanized'''.
-In '''889 AD''' it is documented that there was a clash between the local Croatians (from Cara) and the Venetian army. The story is part of the Island of Korcula's oral history.
-==  Naši - The ''Us'' (ours) People ==
-*Grammatica Della Lingua '''Illirica''' by Francesco Maria Appendini (Ragusan-Dubrovnik/Italian)<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=EkIPAAAAQAAJ&hl=en&dq=Francesco%20Maria%20Appendini&ei=dwRmTNwTidBxmuS4qA8&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBA Grammatica della lingua Illirica by Francesco Maria Appendini] [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=EkIPAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA145&dq=Francesco+Maria+Appendini&hl=en&ei=dwRmTNwTidBxmuS4qA8&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false Section of the book]</ref>
-*Roman province of ''Illyricum'' (indigenous population of Korcula were Illyrians)
-Lumbarda Psephisma is a stone inscription on the island of Korcula, in modern-day Croatia. It is believed that the psephism is from the 4th century B.C. The Greeks established a settlement on the basis of a prior agreement with the representatives of the local Illyrians who were Pil and his son Daz.
-{{Cquote|'''Quote''': ''Best of luck. During the time of hieromnamon Praxidam in the month of Machaneus a contract was made to establish a colony between the people of Issa and Pil and his son Daz. Colony founders agreed upon and the people decided: those who where the first to occupy the land and built a wall around the city would get a special land to build houses within the fortified city, especially with a part, and of the land which was outside the city, so that those first people separately obtain the first lot of three plethrons separated from the land, and from the other parts, to write down (what lot and what part) each of them obtained, and in permanent ownership they (and their descendants) get one and a half plethrons each; subsequent colonists are to get from undistributed land in the field four and a half plethrons; the authorities swear never to  divide the city or land again; if someone of the authority proposes something or someone agrees against this (Psephism), let he or she be dishonoured, and his or her property should become public property; the person who kills  him or her is not to be punished……… This land was obtained and  the city walls built by: Dymanes, Hylleis & Pamphylois.'' <ref>[http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=clanak&id_clanak_jezik=74289&lang=en Hrcak Portal of scientific journals of Croatia:] Lumbarda Psephisma, the Oldest Document about the Division of Land Parcels in Croatia from the Beginning of the 4th or 3rd Century BC by Miljenko Solaric & Nikola Solaic (University of Zagreb). </ref>}}
-*Below taken'' from'' Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina by John Gardner Wilkinson. Published in 1848 (p33).
-{{Cquote|Naski (ours) or '''Illirskee''' is a Slavonic Dialect.<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=K7oAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA256&dq=Statute+of+Curzola+korcula&hl=en&ei=ZAtdTJ7lF5ivcI-m3NsO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=naski&f=false Dalmatia and Montenegro:] With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina by [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/John_Gardner_Wilkinson.jpg Sir John Gardner Wilkinson]
-* Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (October 5, 1797 – October 29, 1875) was an English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century. He is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology".</ref>}}
-*''Editors'' notes: Naski or in Croatian ''Naški''. The '''š''' is pronounced '''sh'''. ''(Interesting: Blato was called Blatta)''
-* [[Korcula Dialect]] ''(or Korčulanski)'' is a Croatian dialect from the island of Korcula in Croatia. According to the Croatian Anthropological Society in their Collegium Antropologicum  (Volumes 15-16) the language base of the Korcula dialect is Chakavian Croatian (it is also intermixed with Shokavian).<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?ei=WmNGTPzMH4GyvgPGq_i4Ag&ct=result&id=KZMjAQAAIAAJ&dq=Dalmatian+language+korcula&q=korcula#search_anchor Collegium Antropologicum, Volumes 15-16] by Croatian Anthropological Society-1991.Pages 312 & 318.</ref> The dialect has remnants of the extinct Romance language, ''Dalmatian''. <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=KZMjAQAAIAAJ&q=Dalmatian+language+korcula&dq=Dalmatian+language+korcula&hl=en&ei=WmNGTPzMH4GyvgPGq_i4Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ Collegium Antropologicum, Volumes 15-16] by Croatian Anthropological Society-1991. Page 311.</ref> The Dalmatian remnants within the dialect have been referred to as Corzulot. Additionally it has influences of Venetian.
-*'''Defora''' in old Venetian means ''"from the outside"''.
-===Island of Korcula===
-''Signor Arneri'' stated: <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=LUFlza-oCV0C&pg=PA164&dq=These+three+pears+you+see+on+the+wall,%22+said+he,+%22are+the+arms+of+my+family.+Perussich+was+the+name,&hl=en&ei=Q2NCTNiSCJLqvQO8y9DIDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=These%20three%20pears%20you%20see%20on%20the%20wall%2C%22%20said%20he%2C%20%22are%20the%20arms%20of%20my%20family.%20Perussich%20was%20the%20name%2C&f=false Researches on the Danube and the Adriatic:] By Andrew Archibald Paton. Chapter 4. The Dalmatian Archipelago.p164
-* Andrew Archibald Paton (1811-1874) was a British diplomat and writer from the 19 century.</ref>
-{{Cquote|These three pears you see on the wall," said he, "are the arms of my family. Perussich was the name, when, in the earlier part of the fifteenth century, my ancestors  built this palace; so that, you see, I am '''Dalmatian'''. All the family, fathers, sons, and brothers, used to serve in the fleets of the Republic (Republic of Venice); but the hero of our race was '''Arneri Perussich''', whose statue you see there, who fought, bled, and died at the ''Siege of Candia'', whose memory was honoured by the Republic, and whose surviving family was liberally pensioned; so his name of our race. We became Arneri, and ceased to be Perussich}}
-According to Marinko Gjivoje, Perussich is ''Piruzović''''.<ref>Otok Korčula (2nd edition) by [http://esperanto.net/literaturo/autor/gjivoje.html Marinko Gjivoje], Zagreb 1969.
-*The book outlines A-Z about the island of Korcula, from traditions, history, culture to wildlife, politics & geography. Page 46-47: ''Piruzović ''. </ref>
-== Local folk song: Zbogom, Moja Bobovišća Vala ==
-:''Zbogom, Moja Bobovišća vala''
-:''kad san kanta, sva is odavala''
-:''Druga mladost kad bude kantati''
-:''valo moja, nemoj odavati"
-:''Zbogom, moje sve od Blata divnje''
-:''s kojima san uźa pasat vrime''
-:(traditional)
-Translation:
-: Goodbye my Bobvisca bay
-: When I sang ...
-----
-* Indigenous population of Korcula were '''Illyrians'''.<ref>The Cambridge Ancient History Vol. 11 : The High Empire, AD 70-192 by Peter Rathbone</ref> It is believed that the Illyrians arrived in the Balkans approximately 1000 BC.<ref>The Illyrians (The Peoples of Europe) by John Wilkes,ISBN 0631198075-1996</ref>
-* Greek colony was founded on Korcula.<ref>An Inventory of Archaic and Classical Poleis: An Investigation Conducted by The Copenhagen Polis Centre for the Danish National Research Foundation by Mogens Herman Hansen,2005,Index</ref> Greek colonists from Corcyra (Corfu) formed a small colony on the island in the 6th century B.C. The Greeks named it "Black Corfu" after their homeland and the dense pine-woods on the island.
-* The island became part of the Roman province of '''Illyricum'''. <ref>'''Encyclopedia Britannica'''.
-* The Roman province of Illyricum stretched from the Drilon River (the Drin, in modern Albania) in the south to Istria (modem [[Slovenia]] and Croatia)</ref> After the Illyrian Wars. Roman migration followed and Roman citizens arrived on the island. <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=QtppAAAAMAAJ&q=Roman+Junianum+korcula&dq=Roman+Junianum+korcula&lr= Croatian Adriatic:] History, Culture, Art & Natural beauties</ref>  In 10 AD Illyricum was split into two provinces, Pannonia and '''Dalmatia'''.<ref>John Everett-Healu. "Dalmatia." Concise Dictionary of World Place-Names. Oxford University Press. 2005. Encyclopedia.com</ref> Korcula became part of the ancient Roman province of Dalmatia.
-* In the 6th century it came under Byzantine Empire rule.
-*The Great Migrations of the 6th and 7th centuries, brought the Slavic peoples<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=l6JnAAAAMAAJ&dq=croatian+history&q=slavs#search_anchor A History of the Croatian] by Francis Ralph Preveden (1955)</ref> into the Dalmatia region. Croatians (Slavs) arrived on the island in the 8th century.
-* Second Slavic Migration in 17th & 18th century.
-Additional:
-*Venetian & Ragusan families (Jewish families from Spain).
-*Korcula originally a Latin town. Latter became Latin/Venetian/Slavic (Croatian).
-*Cara (or Čara) originally Slavic (Croatian) village.
-''Interesting'': Cara used to be called Hara. The [[Austria|Austria-Hungary]] census registered Cara's name as Kcara.
-The Statute of Korcula was first drafted in 1214. It was probably written by Latin & Slavic (Croatian) Nobility.
-{{Cquote|'''Historic quote''': ''"In 1262 the Venetians praised the Slavs and Latins on the island of Korcula for submitting to the prince Venice"'' <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA103&dq=korcula+Venice++Slavs&hl=en&ei=oMBjTJPQBoicvgPkpPCeCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=korcula%20Venice%20%20Slavs&f=false When Ethnicity Did not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine. p103</ref>}}
-In 16 century Stone writings in Zavalatica are dedicated to events from 889 AD. It describes a clash between the Croatians and the Venetian army. Marinko Gjivoje wrote about the find in 1972. The stone writings states: ''Hrvat Dalmatinac'' in its writings.''Hrvat'' means Croatian in Slavic.<ref>[http://www.korcula.net/history/mmarelic/script.htm History-Korcula.net] Marko Marelic-S. Francisco-USA</ref>
-'''Note''': Croatian (Slavs)<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=eaq90_BOvqIC&pg=PA119&dq=Andrea+Dandolo+Venetian+author+Chronicle+of+Dalmatia+Red+Croatia&client=safari&cd=2#v=onepage&q=Andrea%20Dandolo%20Venetian%20author%20Chronicle%20of%20Dalmatia%20Red%20Croatia&f=false Byzantium's Balkan Frontier:] A Political Study of the Northern Balkans, 900-1204 by Paul Stephenson </ref><ref>Presbyter Diocleas: De Regno Sclavorum; Ioannes Lucius: De Regno Dalmatie et Croatiae (Amsterdam 1666) 287-302; Schwandtner Scriptores Rerum Hungaricarum III (Vienna) 174; Sl. Mijušković: Letopis Popa Dukljanina-1967)</ref><ref>Flavius Blondus: Historiarum ab Inclinatione Romani Imperii, dec II, lib II (Venetiae 1483, f. 115 r; ed Basilea 1559) 177.</ref><ref>Andrea Dandolo (1300-1354), the Venetian author of Chronicle of Dalmatia, who writes of Croatian lands (Dalmatian Kingdom), reiterated the boundaries of Red Croatia</ref> started to be referred too (& referred  themselves) mainly as Dalmatians Slavs or Dalmatians, sometime post 11th Century.<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA162&dq=Dalmatian+Slavs+korcula&hl=en&ei=haNjTKueOYiyvgPNnZieCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Dalmatian%20Slavs%20korcula&f=false When Ethnicity Did not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine. p162</ref>
-Korcula's old name was Corzula. The Old-Slavic term was Krkar.
-(Korcula a historically a multicultural and ''multiethnic'' society)
-----
 '''Latin'''/Illyrian/Slavic communities history of the historic ''Republic of Ragusa'' '''&''' ''Republic of Venice'' became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia.
+{{Cquote| '''Quote''' by  contemporary historian Danijel Dzino: ''Medieval studies in [[Croatia]] and in most of the former Yugoslav space were firmly rooted in political history and suffered from isolationism and lack of interest in foreign scholarship.  In the [[Titoism and Totalitarianism|communist era]], especially after the 1960s, Marxist ideology and national and Yugoslav political-ideological frameworks  strongly impacted on the research into medieval history in Croatia '' <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=6UbOtJcF8rQC&pg=PA43&dq=Becoming+Slav,+Becoming+Croat:+Identity+Transformations+in+Post-Roman+Medieval+studies+in+croatia&hl=en&ei=aEVLTZXLC5GevgPU26QW&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Becoming Slav, Becoming Croat: Identity Transformations in Post-Roman and and Early Medieval Dalmatia]  by Danijel Dzino (p43)</ref>}}
 * Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families.
 * Republic of Venice was set up by Latin families.
@@ Line 89: / Line 11: @@
 Famous mixed marriages within these communities :
 * Roger Joseph Boskovich (Republic of Ragusa)
-* Fausto Veranzio (Republic of Venice)
+* [[Fausto Veranzio]] (Republic of Venice)
-Parents were [[Italy|Italian]] & Croatian.
+Their family heritage were Croatian &  [[Italy|Italian]].
 Austro-Hungarian census '''1816''' registered: 66 000 Italian speaking people among the 301 000 inhabitants of Dalmatia.
 ('''ref''' from: Montani, Carlo. Venezia Giulia, Dalmazia - Sommario Storico - An Historical Outline)
+{{GKAdBrite}}
 ==Republic of Ragusa==
 ''Republic of Ragusa'' was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. The Republic's city, Ragusa (today called Dubrovnik)  was established in the 7th century, post Slavic and Avar invasions. The refugees from  Epidaurum (a Roman city) built the settlement in Dalmatia, today in southernmost modern Croatia. Over the centuries the City State-Ragusa started to have relations with the Slavic hinterland, then called Red Croatia (this term for the region ceased to be used from the 11th century onwards). Ragusa itself became an independent state in 1358.
-The Croatians (Slavs), some time in the middle ages started to be part of the Republic's population.The Croatians from the 11th century onwards were mainly called '''Dalmatians Slavs'''.<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA39&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine+++slavs+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Neretljani&f=false When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PQpU2JGJCMwC&pg=PA24&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Venice, a Maritime Republic] by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=XJAKAAAAIAAJ&q=venice+and+slav+pirates&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=4 Venice and its Story] by Thomas Okey</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=oZjpcHnxH2QC&pg=PA67&dq=Dalmatian+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=22#v=onepage&q=&f=false Great Powers and Geopolitical Change] by Jakub J. Grygiel</ref> The 1667 Dubrovnik earthquake,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=vwK4jhvjHQkC&pg=PA86&dq=dubrovnik+earthquake+of+1667&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=dubrovnik%20earthquake%20of%201667&f=false Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries] by Eystein Sverre Husebye</ref> which destroyed the greater part of Dubrovnik has been cited as a turning point for the Republic's ethnic population make up. The Slavic population in the Republic would have been Romanised (adopted Latin culture).
+The Slavs,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA39&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine+++slavs+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Neretljani&f=false When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=PQpU2JGJCMwC&pg=PA24&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Venice, a Maritime Republic] by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=XJAKAAAAIAAJ&q=venice+and+slav+pirates&dq=venice+and+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=4 Venice and its Story] by Thomas Okey</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=oZjpcHnxH2QC&pg=PA67&dq=Dalmatian+slav+pirates&lr=&cd=22#v=onepage&q=&f=false Great Powers and Geopolitical Change] by Jakub J. Grygiel</ref> some time in the middle ages started to be part of the Republic's population. The 1667 Dubrovnik earthquake,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=vwK4jhvjHQkC&pg=PA86&dq=dubrovnik+earthquake+of+1667&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=dubrovnik%20earthquake%20of%201667&f=false Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries] by Eystein Sverre Husebye</ref> which destroyed the greater part of Dubrovnik has been cited as a turning point for the Republic's ethnic population make up. The Slavic population in the Republic would have been Romanised (adopted Latin culture).
 In John Van Antwerp Fine's book ''"When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans"'' the population of the Republic in the 15-century was describe as mainly Slavic. This is very plausible, (that by the 15 century) the surrounding area of the city of Dubrovnik, the Slavs would have been in the majority.<ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=identity+in+dubrovnik&source=bl&ots=d90RrUeZKC&sig=Go7muOWSJwxT5CiJZJX8i0FaC0Q&hl=en&ei=XtlMTNnEN4eiuQOPkbS7Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=identity%20in%20dubrovnik&f=false When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans:] by John Van Antwerp Fine</ref>
-There is a theory that the actual Croatisation (Pan-Slavism) <ref>'''Encyclopedia Britannica''':19th-century movement that recognized a common ethnic background among the various Slav peoples of eastern and east central [[Europe]] and sought to unite those peoples for the achievement of common cultural and political goals. The Pan-Slav movement originally was formed in the first half of the 19th century by West and South Slav intellectuals, scholars, and poets, whose peoples were at that time also developing their sense of national identity. </ref> of the region started to happen in the 19-century, with the Republic becoming part of the [[Austria|Austro-Hungarian]] Empire (then called the Habsburg Monarchy). The second theory is that it was much earlier.
+There is a theory that the actual Croatisation (Pan-Slavism) <ref>'''Encyclopedia Britannica''':19th-century movement that recognized a common ethnic background among the various Slav peoples of eastern and east central [[Europe]] and sought to unite those peoples for the achievement of common cultural and political goals. The Pan-Slav movement originally was formed in the first half of the 19th century by West and South Slav intellectuals, scholars, and poets, whose peoples were at that time also developing their sense of national identity. </ref> of the region started to happen in the 19-century, with the Republic becoming part of the [[Austria|Austro]]-Hungarian Empire (then called the Habsburg Monarchy). The second theory is that it was much earlier.
 ===Sir John Gardner Wilkinson===
 Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (October 5, 1797 – October 29, 1875) was an English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century. He is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology". He was in Dubrovnik in 1848, this is what he wrote in his "Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina":
 {{Cquote|''Their language though gradually falling into Venetianisms of the other Dalmatians towns, still retains some of that pure Italian idiom, for which was always noted.'' (page 362)}}
 {{Cquote|''Italian is spoken in all the seaports of Dalmatia, but the language of the country is a dialect of the Slavonic, which alone is used by peasants in the interior.''(page 4)}}
+===Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide)===
+*Dalmatia-The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide from COSIMO books and publications [[New York]] USA):
+{{Cquote|''Two hundred years later that, is, early in the tenth century you might have heard Slavish and Latin spoken had you walked in the streets of Ragusa, just as you hear Slavish and Italian''' today'''; for as times of peace followed times of war, the Greek and Roman inhabitants of Rausium intermarried with the surrounding Slavs, and so a mixed race sprang up, a people apart from the rest of Dalmatia.'' (p121) <ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=EcvNw81I3hkC&pg=PA121&dq=Dalmatia:+The+Land+Where+East+Meets+West+Slavish+and+Italian+today&hl=en&ei=J46dTKDEF4XOvQOT_PS4DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false Dalmatia: The Land Where East Meets West] by Maude Holbach (p121)
+* "DALMATIA: The Land Where East Meets West is MAUDE M. HOLBACH's second book of travel in Eastern Europe. First published in 1910, this is an anthropological travel journal of an often-overlooked kingdom"
+* [http://www.cosimobooks.com/cosimo/about.html Web site: www.cosimobooks.com]</ref>}}
 ''Editor's notes'': It's quite possible that the Republic was for centuries a multicultural and ''multiethnic'' society! It's ruling class were of mostly of Latin decent, but not all!
-[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 13:36, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
+[[User:Peter Z.|Peter Z.]] 06:13, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 == When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine ==
-*[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA62&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Neretljani]
+*[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA62&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Neretljani here]
+* [http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA30&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Contradict himself here]
-* [http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA30&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Contradict himself]
+* [http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html ''Plus'':spiritus-temporis.com here]
-* [http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html ''Plus'':spiritus-temporis.com]
+== Croatia  DNA-Test ==
+Taken from [http://www.igenea.com/index.php?c=132&st=725 www.igenea.com] <ref>[http://www.igenea.com/index.php?c=132&st=725 www.igenea.com]</ref>
+*Illyrian People 34%
+*Slav 20%
+*Celtic 18%
+*Teuton 12%
+*Phoenician 8%
+*Hellenic People 8%
+(Editors notes: Oh Dear!)
 ==References==
-<div class="references-small" style="-moz-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
+<references/>
-<references />
-</div>

Difference between revisions of "User talk:Peter Z./History Notes"

Latest revision as of 09:38, 21 July 2011

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Republic of Ragusa & Republic of Venice became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia

Republic of Ragusa

Sir John Gardner Wilkinson

Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide)

When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine

Croatia DNA-Test

References

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