Difference between revisions of "User talk:Peter Z./Wikipedia & Political Agendas"

MyWikiBiz, Author Your Legacy — Wednesday November 27, 2024
Jump to navigationJump to search
(rv)
 
(50 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
−
Is Wikipedia taking on a darker tone? Where are the ethical and moral issues involved in creating articles with old communist propaganda rhetoric and it's false information? Is this the next [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Soviet_Encyclopedia Great Soviet Encyclopedia]. This part of Wikipedia is not encyclopaedic work, pure and simple.
+
<!-- MyWikiBiz users, note... Text that appears between these brackets are merely remarks. -->
 +
<!-- They do not appear in the actual page. -->
 +
Is Wikipedia taking on a darker tone? Where are the ethical and moral issues involved in creating articles with old [[Communists|communist]] propaganda rhetoric and it's false information? Is this the Balkan section of Wikipedia becoming the next [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Soviet_Encyclopedia#Purpose Great Soviet Encyclopedia]? This part of Wikipedia is not encyclopaedic work, pure and simple.
 
[http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View#History The Wikipedia Point of View-History]
 
[http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View#History The Wikipedia Point of View-History]
  
 
*[[Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Articles!]]
 
*[[Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Articles!]]
 +
*[[Nationalistic Editing on Wikipedia]]
 
*[[User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas|Wikipedia & Political Agendas ]]
 
*[[User talk:Ockham/Wikipedia & Political Agendas|Wikipedia & Political Agendas ]]
  
−
<!-- MyWikiBiz users, note... Text that appears between these brackets are merely remarks. -->
 
−
<!-- They do not appear in the actual page. -->
 
  
−
== Research on Wikipedia’s Communist Propaganda Articles (former Yugoslavia) ==
+
'''Cazzo''' (www.sciforums.com):
 +
 
 +
Registered Senior User (1,028 posts)
 +
04-07-08, 05:47 PM
 +
 
 +
*When you bring up the topic of the Holocaust (of 6,000,000 jews) to neo-Nazis, they usually respond in 1 of 4 ways.
 +
'''(1)''' They deny it ever happened.
 +
 
 +
'''(2)''' They say it was an "exaggeration" or a conspiracy theory.
 +
 
 +
'''(3)''' They try turning the tables or changing the subject.
 +
 
 +
'''(4)''' They say nothing at all.
 +
 
 +
The pure and simple fact is, they're evil people.
 +
 
 +
''But what about neo-Communists ? (and many other leftists)''
 +
*When you bring up the topic of nearly '''100,000,000 civilians''' torchered and killed under '''Communist governments''' in the 20th century (not including deaths from wars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bla...k_of_Communism), they react in the same way as the 4 catagories above.
 +
*Another excuse leftists make for this attrocity is that they were not "true perfect" Communist societies; well you could say that Germany wasn't a "true fascist" State too.....
 +
 
 +
*Public schools barely touch (if even mention) the Communist mass killings, and Hollywood has put out how many films about this ''? 1 ? 2 ?''
 +
 
 +
And yet, the Communists killed several times more of their own civilians than the Nazis did!
 +
 
 +
Think it's '''fair''' to say leftists that fit those 4 catagories are as evil as neo-Nazis?
 +
 
 +
''by'' '''Cazzo''' (www.sciforums.com)
 +
{| width="100%" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="10" style="background:#000000; border-style:solid; border-width:3px; border-color: #000000"
 +
| width="55%" valign="top" style="padding: 0; margin:0;" |
 +
<div style="float:right; width:100%">
 +
 
 +
<center>
 +
<youtube>Kspj_4TcjOQ&feature=related</youtube>
 +
<center>
 +
|}
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== Research on Wikipedia’s Articles on the Former Yugoslavia ==
 
'''The Balkan World According to Wikipedia''':
 
'''The Balkan World According to Wikipedia''':
−
According to Wikipedia if a Commander happens to lose 100 000 POWs after WW2, it is not that important. Sixty years later it was established that they were murdered and place in old mine shafts, caves and forests. The information is not to be mention in his biography as it is irrelevant.
+
 
 +
According to [[Wikipedia]] if a Commander happens to lose an estimate of '''100 000 POWs''' after [[World War Two]] , it is not that important. Sixty years later it was established that they were murdered and place in old mine shafts, caves and forests. The information is not to be mention in his biography as it is ''irrelevant''.
  
 
On the 23rd of April in 1948, in a speech '''Harry Truman''' (the President of USA) stated:  
 
On the 23rd of April in 1948, in a speech '''Harry Truman''' (the President of USA) stated:  
Line 16: Line 55:
 
''"I am told that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito Tito] murdered more than 400 000 of the opposition in Yugoslavia before he got himself established there as a dictator"''
 
''"I am told that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito Tito] murdered more than 400 000 of the opposition in Yugoslavia before he got himself established there as a dictator"''
  
−
Reference  from: Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=-Xkv7ym8hDYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keeping+Tito+Afloat:+The+United+States,+Yugoslavia,+and+the+Cold+War&client=safari&cd=1#v=snippet&q=%20tito%20trade%20papers%20four%20hundred%20thousand&f=false Keeping Tito Afloat] by Lorraine M. Lees.Keeping Tito Afloat draws upon newly declassified documents to show the critical role that Yugoslavia played in U.S. foreign policy with the communist world in the early years of the Cold War. After World War II, the United States considered Yugoslavia to be a loyal Soviet satellite, but Tito surprised the West in 1948 by breaking with Stalin. Seizing this opportunity, the Truman administration sought to "keep Tito afloat" by giving him military and economic aid.</ref>  &  Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman: Mission and Power in American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce <ref> American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce</ref> ''(declassified documents from the 1990s)''
+
Reference  from: Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=-Xkv7ym8hDYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Keeping+Tito+Afloat:+The+United+States,+Yugoslavia,+and+the+Cold+War&client=safari&cd=1#v=snippet&q=%20tito%20trade%20papers%20four%20hundred%20thousand&f=false Keeping Tito Afloat] by Lorraine M. Lees.Keeping Tito Afloat draws upon newly declassified documents to show the critical role that Yugoslavia played in U.S. foreign policy with the communist world in the early years of the Cold War. After World War II, the United States considered Yugoslavia to be a loyal Soviet satellite, but Tito surprised the West in 1948 by breaking with Stalin. Seizing this opportunity, the Truman administration sought to "keep Tito afloat" by giving him military and economic aid.</ref>  &  Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman: Mission and Power in American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce <ref> American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce</ref> ''([[USA|US]] declassified documents from the 1990s)''
 +
* Christopher Bennett: Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse: Causes, Course and Consequences ''"Tito remained a Stalinist to the end of his life. Tito"'' . <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=FeiKg3TuNl0C&pg=PA56&dq=titoism&client=safari&cd=9#v=onepage&q=titoism&f=false Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse:] Causes, Course and Consequences by Christopher Bennett</ref> ([http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1207940.Yugoslavia_s_Bloody_Collapse_Causes_Course_and_Consequences book info])
  
−
* '''R. H. Markham''': Tito's Imperial Communism <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=bPlo1Wz9hqQC&pg=PR7&dq=Totalitarian+dictatorship+and+autocracy+tito&lr=&client=safari&cd=12#v=onepage&q=Totalitarian%20dictatorship%20and%20autocracy%20tito&f=false Tito's Imperial Communism] by R. H. Markham</ref>
 
−
* Christopher Bennett: Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse: Causes, Course and Consequences
 
−
''"Tito was a Stalinist in his own right"'' . <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=FeiKg3TuNl0C&pg=PA56&dq=titoism&client=safari&cd=9#v=onepage&q=titoism&f=false Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse:] Causes, Course and Consequences by Christopher Bennett</ref>
 
 
Bennett, a British journalist who has the good fortune to speak both Slovenian and Croatian, a skill that has enabled him to draw heavily on literature of the region that would be unavailable to most American or British journalists.
 
Bennett, a British journalist who has the good fortune to speak both Slovenian and Croatian, a skill that has enabled him to draw heavily on literature of the region that would be unavailable to most American or British journalists.
 
*Vladimir Tismaneanu: The Crisis of Marxist Ideology in Eastern Europe: The Poverty of Utopia. ''"Tito was a season Stalinist"''  <ref>The Poverty of Utopia by Vladimir Tismaneanu</ref>
 
*Vladimir Tismaneanu: The Crisis of Marxist Ideology in Eastern Europe: The Poverty of Utopia. ''"Tito was a season Stalinist"''  <ref>The Poverty of Utopia by Vladimir Tismaneanu</ref>
−
*  Adam Bruno Ulam: Ideologies and Illusions: Revolutionary Thought from Herzen to Solzhenitsyn-Titoisam <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=lQIZSY9PviUC&pg=PA171&dq=titoism&lr=&client=safari&cd=25#v=onepage&q=tito&f=false] Revolutionary Thought from Herzen to Solzhenitsyn by Adam Bruno Ulam</ref>
 
 
*  Vesna Pusic-Croatia at the Crossroads/Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 ''"Tito, a Croat and a Moscow-trained communist, ...... While his was a single-party, totalitarian regime, Tito was more a shrewd pragmatist than an ideologue. "''  <ref>[http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/journal_of_democracy/v009/9.1pusic.html Croatia at the Crossroads] Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 by Vesna Pusic</ref>
 
*  Vesna Pusic-Croatia at the Crossroads/Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 ''"Tito, a Croat and a Moscow-trained communist, ...... While his was a single-party, totalitarian regime, Tito was more a shrewd pragmatist than an ideologue. "''  <ref>[http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/journal_of_democracy/v009/9.1pusic.html Croatia at the Crossroads] Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 by Vesna Pusic</ref>
−
 
+
{{GKAdBrite}}
 
== Notes on References ==
 
== Notes on References ==
 
'''Contemporary views''' of Josip Broz that are clealy referenced:
 
'''Contemporary views''' of Josip Broz that are clealy referenced:
 +
*[http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/ASEN/ConferencePapers/Ms.%20Tamara%20Pavasovic%20Trost%20-%20A%20Personality%20Cult%20Transformed%20The%20Evolution%20of%20Tito’s%20Image%20in%20the%20Former%20Yugoslavia%201974%20-%202009.pdf A Personality Cult Transformed:] The Evolution of Tito’s Image in the Former Yugoslavia 1974 – 2009/Tamara Pavasovic Trost Ph.D. Candidate Department of Sociology Harvard University [[USA]].
 
*Lorraine M. Lees is an associate professor of history at Old Dominion University in Virginia, USA.
 
*Lorraine M. Lees is an associate professor of history at Old Dominion University in Virginia, USA.
 
*Anne R. Pierce Ph. D. Political Science from the University of Chicago. Independent Scholar & Author/USA [http://annerpierce.com/home/index.php Author's Web Site]*
 
*Anne R. Pierce Ph. D. Political Science from the University of Chicago. Independent Scholar & Author/USA [http://annerpierce.com/home/index.php Author's Web Site]*
Line 64: Line 101:
  
 
*'''Ivo Goldstein''': <ref>Croatia A History-Mc Gill Queen’s University Press Publication by Ivo Goldstein. </ref>
 
*'''Ivo Goldstein''': <ref>Croatia A History-Mc Gill Queen’s University Press Publication by Ivo Goldstein. </ref>
−
:''“Self-management as system was only slightly more efficient than the Soviet model. It was bureaucratised and cumbersome and could not compete with Western economies. People could obtain so much free or for less than the market price (e.g. apartments) that they could be obtain without work. All this made the settling of accounts in the 1980s and in the post-socialist age more difficult.”''
+
Ivo Goldstein: 'Croatia A History'. Josip Broz and his fellow communist were committing economic management suicide. The Wiki article does not have Ivo Goldstein  as its source.
−
 
 
−
:''“In Tito’s system no interest or ideas could be expressed in a truly democratic way. This did most harm where feelings of ethnic identity were concerned because their suppression led to growth of extreme nationalism. Furthermore, the economic failure of Tito’s system, most clearly expressed in the protracted crisis of the 1980s, left people who even if they were not poor, were disillusioned and open to manipulation by demagogues. Finally Tito’s practical solutions ensured that he would retain unlimited power during his life time, but foreshadowed the problems would come after his death.”
 
−
''
 
−
This is a factual statement, written in Ivo Goldstein: 'Croatia A History'. Josip Broz and his fellow communist were committing economic management suicide. The Wiki article does not have Ivo Goldstein  as its source.
 
 
:The articles clearly state:
 
:The articles clearly state:
  
Line 89: Line 122:
 
Reports and proceedings of the 8 April European public hearing on “Crimes committed by totalitarian regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency.
 
Reports and proceedings of the 8 April European public hearing on “Crimes committed by totalitarian regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency.
  
−
*'''Joachim Friedrich''' & '''Zbigniew Brzezinski''' ''(Totalitarian Dictatorship and Autocracy)'': <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=U3xCAAAAIAAJ&q=Totalitarian+dictatorship+and+autocracy+regimes&dq=Totalitarian+dictatorship+and+autocracy+regimes&client=safari&cd=1 Totalitarian Dictatorship and Autocracy] by Joachim Friedrich & Zbigniew Brzezinski</ref> Characteristics of a totalitarian regime; a total ideology, a single mass party, a terrorist secret police, a monopoly of mass communication, all instruments to wage combat are in the control of the same hands, and a centrally directed planned economy. Totalitarian dictatorships emerge after the seizure of power by the leaders of a movement who have developed support for an ideology. The point when the government becomes totalitarian is when the leadership uses open and legal violence to maintain its control. The dictator demands unanimous devotion from the people and often uses a real or imaginary enemy to create a threat so the people rally around him.
+
'''Totalitarian machine''':  
−
 
 
−
'''Titoism & Totalitarianism''':  
 
  
 
*Abuse of national sentiment to carry out racial and class revolutionary projects;  
 
*Abuse of national sentiment to carry out racial and class revolutionary projects;  
Line 132: Line 163:
  
 
(Mr Bozic is a Doctor from Zagreb -Croatia, Master of Medical Science and has done 20 years intensive research into ''partisan communists'' in the former Yugoslavia)
 
(Mr Bozic is a Doctor from Zagreb -Croatia, Master of Medical Science and has done 20 years intensive research into ''partisan communists'' in the former Yugoslavia)
 +
 +
* Croatia: Amnesty International & PART II - LUSTRATION IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE
 +
 +
The Draft Law on Removing the Consequences of the Totalitarian Communist Regime, proposed by: the Croatian Party of Rights (1998 and 1999) aimed to systematically bar high-ranking party and state officials of the former regime from holding high-ranking offices in the new state, if in the past these persons had violated human rights and opposed the establishment of democracy.
 +
 +
The Law on the Security Services of the Republic of Croatia has been applied since 1 April 2002. The key intention of the law is the establishment of an appropriate model of supervision of their work (internal and external control). The law makes no distinction between the period from 1945 until 1990 and the period after 1990. Principally, the law allows for access to the documents and material. In the period 1990-1996 there were an estimated 2,200 dismissals and appointments of judges and state attorneys recorded in the Official Gazette.
 +
 +
In Croatia there have as yet been practically no major public debates on the past. <ref>[http://www.amnesty.nl/bibliotheek_vervolg/thema_berechting_part_2 Croatia & PART II - LUSTRATION IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE, Amnesty International ]</ref>
  
 
== Mr Dizdar's ''Scientific Journal'' Study Notes==
 
== Mr Dizdar's ''Scientific Journal'' Study Notes==
Line 142: Line 181:
  
 
*''Item B''- '''Z. Dizdar''': An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross                   
 
*''Item B''- '''Z. Dizdar''': An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross                   
−
According to the research of ''Z.Dizdar'', Partisan General Aleksandar Rankovic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandar_Ranković] [http://files.osa.ceu.hu/holdings/300/8/3/text/86-3-147.shtml] was only answerable to Tito (page 128). Aleksandar Rankovic play a major role in these executions and the only person that could to give Rankovic such an order, was Tito. The report also states that there were huge Camps housing POWs, amongst them were women and children. On page 182 (66) it states that there were '''24 422 children''' in the camps.<ref>[http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:Xmg34OucoOoJ:scholar.google.com/++RESEARCH+OF+THE+PROBLEM+OF+BLEIBURG+AND+WAY+OF+THE+CROSS+++ZDRAVKO+DIZDAR+djeca+logor&hl=en&as_sdt=2000  Hrcak Portal of Scientific Journals of Croatia by Mr Dizdar's Scientific Journal - An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross.] This paper dedicated to the 60th anniversary of these tragic events represents a small step towards the elaboration of known data and brings a list of yet unknown and unpublished original documents, mostly belonging to the Yugoslavian Military and Political Government 1945-1947.</ref>
+
According to the research of ''Z.Dizdar'', Partisan General [http://files.osa.ceu.hu/holdings/300/8/3/text/86-3-147.shtml Aleksandar Rankovic] was only answerable to Tito (page 128). Aleksandar Rankovic play a major role in these executions and the only person that could to give Rankovic such an order, was Tito. The report also states that there were huge Camps housing POWs, amongst them were women and children. On page 182 (66) it states that there were '''24 422 children''' in the camps.<ref>[http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:Xmg34OucoOoJ:scholar.google.com/++RESEARCH+OF+THE+PROBLEM+OF+BLEIBURG+AND+WAY+OF+THE+CROSS+++ZDRAVKO+DIZDAR+djeca+logor&hl=en&as_sdt=2000  Hrcak Portal of Scientific Journals of Croatia by Mr Dizdar's Scientific Journal - An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross.] This paper dedicated to the 60th anniversary of these tragic events represents a small step towards the elaboration of known data and brings a list of yet unknown and unpublished original documents, mostly belonging to the Yugoslavian Military and Political Government 1945-1947.</ref>
  
 
*Treba kazati kako su postojali još posebni logoru za folsdojčere, kojisu još 21. XI. 1944. od Predsjedništva AVNOJ-a proglašeni kolektivnimkrivcima i neprijateljima naroda, na osnovi cega je od nove komunistickevlasti izvršena konfisciranja njihove imovine te zapoceo njihov progon,uhicivanja i upucivanja u logore.130 Tako je 18. I. 1946. u jugoslavenskimlogorima bilo 117.485 folksdojcera (58.821 žena, 34.214 muškaraca i24.422 djece)
 
*Treba kazati kako su postojali još posebni logoru za folsdojčere, kojisu još 21. XI. 1944. od Predsjedništva AVNOJ-a proglašeni kolektivnimkrivcima i neprijateljima naroda, na osnovi cega je od nove komunistickevlasti izvršena konfisciranja njihove imovine te zapoceo njihov progon,uhicivanja i upucivanja u logore.130 Tako je 18. I. 1946. u jugoslavenskimlogorima bilo 117.485 folksdojcera (58.821 žena, 34.214 muškaraca i24.422 djece)
−
(Opširnije o tome vidi: V. GEIGER, 200)
+
(Opširnije o tome vidi/ for more details: V. GEIGER, 200)
−
 
 
−
== Communist Propaganda &  Cult of Personality Within the Former Yugoslavia ==
 
−
 
 
−
The Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine shared much with the Soviet Union. The Soviet format was imposed and then slightly modified. Tito's cult of personality was no different<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=Mi9b2yenE0kC&pg=PA91&dq=cult+of+personality+Josip+broz+tito&client=safari&cd=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false Governing by Committee: Collegial Leadership in Advanced Societies] by Thomas A. Baylis. Communist Collective Leadership, page 91</ref>. The Yugoslav Communist state used '''youth indoctrination''' (Union of Pioneers of Yugoslavia[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Pioneers_of_Yugoslavia]), which were all too similar to the Soviet Union (Young Pioneer of the Soviet Union [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Pioneer_organisation_of_the_Soviet_Union]) and the People's Republic of China  [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Pioneers_of_China]. Communist political, historical and philosophical courses were all part of general education <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=GxuXQW58E14C&pg=PA197&dq=Democratic+transition+in+Croatia+value+transformation+Tito's+cult+of+personality&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Democratic transition in Croatia: Value Transformation, Education & Media] by Sabrina P. Ramet, Davorka Matic Chapter- History Teaching in the Time of Socialist Yugoslavia, page 198</ref>. They can be found in any Yugoslav primary school textbook from the 1970s.
 
−
Media and arts were used as a powerful means of propaganda and were all placed under heavy censorship. Josip Broz Tito was the main subject. Images, monuments, towns, street names, '''endless awards''' were given and a never ending production of books, films and poetry were created. Financially a huge amount of resources were used to keep the Communist propaganda and political activities running on a daily basis. Glorification and hero worship of the charismatic figure,<ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=Rf8P-7ExoKYC&pg=PA192&dq=cult+of+personality+Josip+broz+tito&client=safari&cd=10#v=onepage&q=cult%20of%20personality%20Josip%20broz%20tito&f=false Religious Separation and Political Intolerance in Bosnia and Herzegovina] By Mitja Velikonja. Ref/Chapter Integral and Organic Yugoslavism, page 192 </ref>  Josip Broz were a constant diet for the former peoples of Yugoslavia.
 
−
 
 
−
Most of Josip Broz’s images, monuments, town names and street names are now being removed. This started after the fall of the Berlin Wall and after the break up of Yugoslavia.
 
−
 
 
−
*The below referenced information is from ‘Discontents: Post-modern and Post-communist’ by Paul Hollander [http://daviscenter.fas.harvard.edu/people/bio_hollander.html][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hollander].
 
−
 
 
−
:''“Virtually every communist system extinct or surviving at one point or another, had a supreme leader who was both extraordinarily powerful and surrounded by a bizarre cult, indeed worship. In the past (or in a more traditional contemporary societies) such as cults were reserved for deities and associated with conventional religious behaviour and institutions. These cults although apparently an intrinsic part of communist dictatorships (at any rate at a stage in their evolution) are largely forgotten today.”''
 
−
:''“ Stalin, Maio, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Sung, Enver Hoxha, Ceascesu, Dimitrov, Ulbricht, Gottwald, '''Tito''' and others all were the object of such cults. The prototypical cult was that of Stalin which was duplicated elsewhere with minor variations”''
 
−
 
 
−
Paul Hollander is an American scholar, journalist, and conservative political writer. (Ph.D in Sociology. Princeton University, 1963, B.A. London School of Economics, 1959 Professor Emeritus of Sociology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst Centre Associate, Davis).
 
−
 
 
 
==  Communist Party of Yugoslavia, Tito & the Yugoslav Economy ==
 
==  Communist Party of Yugoslavia, Tito & the Yugoslav Economy ==
 
   
 
   
Line 168: Line 192:
  
 
Professor Ivo Goldstein’s[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Goldstein] work  ''above'' proves that Josip Broz, put simply, was a bad economist and the Communists Party members were bad economists too. According to these and other references [http://books.google.com/books?id=pSxJdE4MYo4C&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=Ivo+Goldstein+josip+broz+tito&source=bl&ots=LhBvNMaOlk&sig=xzaZOyX2NizYEnvG6LFgv5_sh2c&hl=en&ei=DrDmSsKeNI-PkQXukOTBBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=liberation%20of%20belgrade%20october%201944&f=false], this was one of the reasons that contributed to the break-up of Yugoslavia. As this was such a historical event, this information should be in the Wikipedia article in order to make it more encyclopaedic.
 
Professor Ivo Goldstein’s[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Goldstein] work  ''above'' proves that Josip Broz, put simply, was a bad economist and the Communists Party members were bad economists too. According to these and other references [http://books.google.com/books?id=pSxJdE4MYo4C&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=Ivo+Goldstein+josip+broz+tito&source=bl&ots=LhBvNMaOlk&sig=xzaZOyX2NizYEnvG6LFgv5_sh2c&hl=en&ei=DrDmSsKeNI-PkQXukOTBBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=liberation%20of%20belgrade%20october%201944&f=false], this was one of the reasons that contributed to the break-up of Yugoslavia. As this was such a historical event, this information should be in the Wikipedia article in order to make it more encyclopaedic.
−
== House of De Bona==
 
−
House of De Bona (the proper name) '''''vs'''''  the ''slavic'', House of Bunic on [[Wikipedia]].    [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:House_of_Bunić Link ''for'' Talk:House of Bunic]
 
−
===Family Member Statement===
 
−
As a Croatian member of the de Bona family, I would like to remind everybody of the following:
 
  
−
The Bona name already appears in a document dated from the 10th century - this document can be seen in Dubrovnik. All Croatian identity documents show de BONA (even during Yugoslavia) All family records show the name BONA, never Bunic Tombstones show Bona, never Bunic.
+
== Deletion On Wiki Talk Page Josip Broz Tito (fun and games) ==
 +
*[[Directory:Josip Broz Tito and Wikipedia|Josip Broz Tito and Wikipedia]]‎
  
−
Bunic predominantly appears in books written by "Yugoslav" authors or those using "Yugoslav" sources. Paintings in the Dubrovnik Museum show the name "de Bona" on all the paintings - description tags usually say Bunic and now also Bona in most cases (since Croatia's independence -- under Yugoslavia, nearly exclusively Bunic).
+
Dear reader just recently my thoughts on talkpage Tito have been deleted and it seems it’s going to stay that way. Since I am faced with the fact that my opinions are being suppressed and then eventually will be blocked, I’ve decided to put this out there so these events may be known to the wider wiki community.
  
−
In Dubrovnik the family is known as Bona, not Bunic. The aristocracy wanted to distiguish themselves from the rest of the population and did not Slavicize their names (except two families of Slavic origin)...in some cases some people who wrote in Croatian or a form of it also used a Slavic version of the name...Additional proof needed for the Bona name. So far none seen.
+
The article in question is Josip Broz Tito (the former Dictator of Yugoslavia- East Europe). He was commander of the partisan forces during world war 2 and later a Stalinistic style dictator of the former Yugoslavia. The Wikipedic article is biased and does not mention crimes (Bleiburg massacre & foibe massacres)) against humanity that were committed under his leadership.  
−
In MHO, this page should be known as House of Bona (aka Bunic) and all the names in the Slavic version should appear in parentheses next to the Bona name. As far as I know, there are no historical records with these Slavic names. All family records, always show the name Bona even when the rest of the text is written in Croatian.
 
  
−
A small clique is controlling all the info that goes into the Croatian pages. This is a fact. They are very determined that only info they accept can enter in Wikipedia. Otherwise, they do everything to make sure it's deleted -- often with no explanation --. If they don't like a user they will do everything to ban him.
+
I registered that this should be part of the article and as a result I have been deleted. One writer was very abusive and deleted my writings on talk back pages. His name is DIREKTOR. He was supported by Ruhrfisch ><>°° I would like to quote some of the Direktor’s statements regarding this article just to inform you of what we are dealing with here.
  
−
In MHO, Bunic is only used to say it's "Croatian" versus "Italian"... I don't recognize myself in the Bunic name. It doesn't mean anything to me...but Croatian people, who don't know anything about the family, are telling everybody it's the name...with no proof to back it up.
+
{{Cquote|Find yourself another one of your crappy "forums" to talk about your presumptions. Just forget about this, Luigi/Brunodam, you're not annoying anyone - you're just turning out amusing. I think I'll file a checkuser in an hour or so, you'd better believe it when I say I'll delete everything you wrote if you're a sock. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)}}
−
You make up your mind what the name of the House is... Debona.michel (talk) 10:46, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 
  
−
===Ref for De Bona:=== 
+
These events are not some conspiracy. They have been part of the western media since the break up of the former Yugoslavia. They have been presented as TV documentaries, on talk back shows and in general writings in England, other parts of Europe and USA, Australia and other parts of the free world. They are backed by eye witness accounts by people who were actually caught up in these events.
−
* Age, Marriage, and Politics in Fifteenth Century Ragusa ''by'' David Rheubottom <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=_3dGQI2MdKQC&pg=PA77&dq=(de)+Bona+house+ragusa&client=safari&cd=1#v=onepage&q=(de)%20Bona%20house%20ragusa&f=false Age, Marriage, and Politics in Fifteenth Century Ragusa] by David Rheubottom</ref>
 
−
Book overview: This book combines the insights of history and anthropology with innovative techniques such as computer simulation to investigate the relationships between politics, kinship, and marriage in the late-medieval city-state of Ragusa (present-day Dubrovnik). At its heart is a reconsideration of `office' and the ways in which ties of kinship and marriage were mobilised to build electoral success.
 
  
−
*Our Kingdom Come: The Counter-Reformation, the Republic of Dubrovnik by Zdenko Zlatar <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=RGRpAAAAMAAJ&q=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&dq=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&client=safari&cd=9 Our Kingdom Come] The Counter-Reformation, the Republic of Dubrovnik by Zdenko Zlatar</ref>
+
The Croatian government is addressing these issues with investigations and financial reimbursement is being given to the victims. These are facts and should be present in the article and not deleted when someone points them out. These actions mirror the attitude of the regime that I am trying to expose.
−
* Dubrovnik’s Patrician Houses and Their Participation in Power (1440-1640) ''by'' Zdenko Zlatar/hrcak.srce.hr/ page 49 <ref>[http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZZoIxjLQg8J:hrcak.srce.hr/file/28928+House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShfySDFoeDnq8Xs1VHKAD7TKmoK5f62fuEJZB_R93bpVoRTnerV_ILq9MngmdQBuQzVpc-pdFZyJP7PYuoRzp-446zoCevYYADqA7GTlYuCqZT6uZdNv_apIZqulcnDnTP-dbDy&sig=AHIEtbQGOnW1WNvuOttPIWfXVCUnZIg26g Dubrovnik’s Patrician Houses and Their Participation in Power (1440-1640)] by Zdenko Zlatar/hrcak.srce.hr/file/28928. page 49</ref>
 
−
 
−
'''Zdenko Zlatar''' is Reader in Slavic History at The University of Sydney. Address:
 
−
Department of History, The University of Sydney, Sydney, N.S.W. 2006, Australia
 
−
*Dubrovnik Under French Rule ''by'' Stjepan Cosic page 113 hrcak.srce.hr/file/12648. <ref>[http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache%3AF6sh1V_orWAJ%3Ahrcak.srce.hr%2Ffile%2F12648+House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&hl=en Dubrovnik Under French Rule (1810-1814) Dubrovnik Under French Rule] by Stjepan Cosic/ hrcak.srce.hr/file/12648. page 113 </ref>
 
−
* Dubrovnik‎ by Barisa Krekic <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?client=safari&cd=1&id=m85pAAAAMAAJ&dq=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&q=+De+Bona+#search_anchor  Dubrovnik‎ by Barisa Krekic]</ref>
 
−
* Journal of Croatian Studies: Volume 20 ''by'' Croatian Academy of America <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=VvCPAAAAIAAJ&q=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&dq=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&client=safari&cd=10 Journal of Croatian Studies]  Volume 20 ''by'' Croatian Academy of America</ref>
 
−
* Quattrocento Adriatico: Fifteenth-Century Art of the Adriatic by Charles Dempsey <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?client=safari&cd=5&id=uKzpAAAAMAAJ&dq=House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&q=De+Bona+#search_anchor Quattrocento Adriatico]: Fifteenth-Century Art of the Adriatic by Charles Dempsey  "The papers collected in this book provide many new observations about the artistic interrelationship between Italy and the cities of the Dalmatian coast during the fifteenth century, with special attention given to the influence on both sides of the Adriatic of the styles of Donatello in sculpture, Squarcione in painting, and Alberti in architecture. Essays are devoted to fifteenth-century painting in Dalmatia and its ties to the opposite shore; to the centrality of Padua in diffusing artistic ideas throughout the Adriatic; to Venetian sovereignty over Dalmatia; to Renaissance villas on the Dalmatian coast; to the architectural activity of Michelozzo and his shop in Dubrovnik.
 
  
−
(University of Ljubljana), Johannes Roll (The Humboldt University)."</ref>
+
The Josip Broz Tito article is a dangerous biased piece of writing. It would fit perfectly in any article of the old the Yugoslavia or the old Soviet Union propaganda machine (Cult of personality). Why is it there? The only answer it seems is that Wikipedia has some writers of extreme views (Stalin Style) who don’t tolerate being questioned.
−
*Helias and Blasius De Radoano: Ragusa Merchants in the Second Half of the 14th Century ''by'' Barisa Krekic.  
 
  
−
" In February of 1378 Blasius and ser '''Lucas de Bona''' had appointed two Venetians and a Ragusan"  page 408 <ref>[http://www.doiserbia.nbs.bg.ac.yu/img/doi/0584-9888/2004/0584-98880441399K.pdf Helias and Blasius De Radoano:] Ragusa Merchants in the Second Half of the 14th Century by Barisa Krekic</ref>
+
Referenced from www.britannica.com: "The irony of Tito’s remarkable life is that he created the conditions for the eventual destruction of his lifelong effort. Instead of allowing the process of democratisation to establish its own limits, he constantly upset the work of reformers while failing to satisfy their adversaries. He created a federal state, yet he constantly fretted over the pitfalls of decentralization."
  
−
''Note:'' Reference writing is based on unpublished and published documents from the State Archives in Dubrovnik, Croatia.
+
Tito was the commander of the Partisans and there are far too many examples of mass murders & mass arrests for it to be ignored (& there are many more). Any good encyclopedic article should make reference to them. It would be like Stalin without his rule of terror being documented. This just dosen't make sense in the modern world. What we have here is a clear avoidance of these issues (in the article), thus making it biased.  
−
* From Dubrovnik (Ragusa) Florence: Observations on the Recruiting of Domestic Servants in the 15 Century by Paola Pinelli - hrcak.srce.hr/file/50677.page 63
 
  
−
"for slave trade companies continued to be founded, like the one established in 1445 between '''Marino di Bona''' of '''Ragusa''' and Benedetto Magrino for the trade of 12-15 male and female slaves." <ref>[http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:0I7qkN19v8QJ:scholar.google.com/+House+of+De+Bona+dubrovnik&hl=en&as_sdt=2000 From Dubrovnik (Ragusa) Florence] : Observations on the Recruiting of Domestic Servants in the 15 Century by Paola Pinelli/hrcak.srce.hr/file/50677 page 63</ref>
+
{{Cquote|Direktor '''stated''': they have absolutely nothing to do with Josip Broz Tito}} Well then, what ''' did Tito do'''? Did he let these horrible events just happen? Did he have a '''moral conscience''' (the war did end)? Was he '''incompetent?''' Was he the great leader that the Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine portrayed him to be? Even the Wiki article states this. I have shown here credible references and sources to prove my argument, please take them into account.  
−
*The Factions within the Ragusan Patriciate (17-18 Century)  S. Cosic and N. Vekaric.
 
−
Table 1. Factions in the Great Conspiracy of 1610/12 by senatorship. page 23 <ref>[http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:hpVqWGLzcCkJ:scholar.google.com/++Merchants+de+Bona+republic+of+ragusa+patrician+families&hl=en&as_sdt=2000 The Factions within the Ragusan Patriciate (17-18 Century)] by S. Cosic and N. Vekaric. Table 1. Factions in the Great Conspiracy of 1610/12 by senatorship. page 23 </ref>
 
  
−
''Note'': Stjepan Cosic, member of the Institute for Historical Sciences of the Croatian Academy of
 
−
Sciences and Arts in Dubrovnik. Address: Zavod za povijesne znanosti HAZU, Lapadska
 
−
obala 6, 20000 Dubrovnik, Croatia.
 
−
 
−
Nenad Vekarie, head of the Institute for Historical Sciences of the Croatian Academy of
 
−
Sciences and Arts in Dubrovnik. Address: Zavod za povijesne znanosti HAZU, Lapadska
 
−
obala 6, 20000 Dubrovnik, Croatia.
 
−
 
−
(Dubrovnik Annals, No.6 Srpanj 2002.<ref>[http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?lang=hr&show=clanak&id_clanak_jezik=28928 Dubrovnik Annals, No.6 Srpanj 2002.]</ref>)
 
−
 
−
 
−
''In Croatia'':
 
−
* National Security and the Future. Editorial Office, Rudera Boskoviceva 20, 10000 Zagreb, Croatia: 
 
−
 
−
''" The Ragusan Archives document , "Speculum Maioris Consilii Rectores", showed 4397 rectors elected between September 1440 to June l806; 2764, (63 %) were from eleven "old patrician" families: Gozze, Bona, Caboga, Cerva, Ghetaldi, Giorgi, Gradi, Pozza, Saraca, Sorgo, and Zamanya. An 1802 list of Ragusa's governing bodies showed that 6 of the 8 Minor Council, and 15 of 20 Grand Council members were from the same 11 families."'' <ref>[http://www.nsf-journal.hr/issues/v1_n3-4/dedijer.htm National Security and the Future-Croatia]:Ragusa Intelligence & Security (RIS)
 
−
- A Model for the 21st Century! Stevan Dedijer Dubrovnik, Croatia </ref>
 
−
 
−
*De Bona Consulting: Director: Mercy Bona Pavelic [http://www.luxurycroatia.com/ProductDetails/156/pgid/23/lang/English/Luxury---Exclusive-Croatia---Top-Real-Estate-Agencies---de-Bona-Consulting--Dubrovnik--Zagreb.wshtml - DE BONA CONSULTING]
 
−
E-mail: bona@de-bona.com, gsm: + 385 91 6374883, Zrinsko Frankopanska 5, Dubrovnik, Croatia
 
−
fax: +385 20 311816 Pantovcak 8, Zagreb, Croatia, fax: +385 1 4821347 [http://www.de-bona.com/index.php DeBona.com] <br>    <!-- This is how you force a line break. -->
 
−
 
−
* HUMANIZAM -hrv. književnost 14. i 15. st. <ref>[http://mudrac.ffzg.hr/~ltatomir/skripte/skripte/humanizam.rtf Humanizam -hrv. književnost 14. i 15. st]</ref>
 
−
(Debona.michel: "Basically, we are dealing with a small group of mostly young, very aggressive, (extreme) nationalist/jingoist/chauvinist, passionate (24/7), degree-less students who have decided that Wikipedia is their domain/soap box and a no one should get in their way." - 8 January 2010)
 
−
 
−
== While Visiting the Croatian Coast ''by'' 200.112.16.153==
 
−
 
−
While visiting the '''Croatia''' coast (Dalmatia) of the Adriatic Sea, western journalists usually admire her ancient towns. They notice almost everywhere that the regional architecture is “heavily influenced” by a “Venetian” flavour. Years ago, a famous chef posing in front of a XVI century Dalmatian building for a documentary, claimed that its architecture was “quintessentially Croatian“. In the past, certain Western writers were almost convinced (and disgusted) that Croatians “imitated” Venetian and Italian Renaissance architecture in building Dalmatian towns. Today, Croatian and international tourist guides are presenting the rich artistic patrimony of Dalmatian coastal towns as essentially “Croatian” or “a reflection of Croatia‘s history“. They almost never mention the autochthonous Italians (about 80.000 in 1800s) who lived there since Roman times and who built those architectural jewels before disappearing in modern times. Where did they go? Almost all of them became refugees. They were the victims of the first ethnic cleansing documented in the Balkans.
 
−
 
−
The history of Dalmatia is compromised by strategic interests and political correctness. The current ignorance about the eastern Adriatic coast is appalling and widespread. It is, in short, the consequence of a “damnatio memoriae” of political nature. On one side, in the West nobody knows the real history of the region. On the other side, ”’today a phalanx of nationalistic Croatian historians, political leaders, journalists and tourist operators, profiting from this vacuum are erasing, falsifying and misappropriating the real history on an international level using books, newspapers, tourist propaganda and Internet sites”’.
 
−
 
−
=== The ethnic cleansing of the late 1800’s. ===
 
−
 
−
The ethnic cleansing of the autochthonous Italian population of today’s Croatian coastline started in the second half of the 1800’s
 
−
Towns had Italian names:
 
−
*Zadar-Zara
 
−
*Split-Spalato
 
−
*Sibenik-Sebenico
 
−
*Trogir-Trau
 
−
*Dubrovnik-Ragusa
 
−
 
−
They had Italian communities in a dominant position and a cosmopolitan population (of Croatian, Serbian, Albanian, Greek &  Jewish origin). Everybody spoke Italian and Venetian dialect, the “lingua franca” of the time. Helped by the Austrian government (then all Eastern Adriatic coastline was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire), Croatians launched a political campaign against the “Italian Dalmatia” to annex the territory. Since the beginning it was an integral part of the political national aspirations of Croatians struggling to form their own state. It continued to be so during the turbulent formation of the first, monarchic, Yugoslavia, when Croatia accepted willy-nilly the Serbian domination. The Serbs and the Croatians continued the assault, violent, almost a civil war-against all Dalmatian towns inhabited by ethnic Italians.
 
−
 
−
Following a first exodus toward the end of the 1800s, in 1905 in Rome a ''Dalmatian Italian Association'' to help the refugees was founded.
 
−
 
−
Then, after WWI tens of thousands of Dalmatian Italians abandoned their towns and villages in 1920-1930s and settled on Italian territory. During WW2 a third and final exodus: the winning '''Communist''' movement embraced the Croatian’s irredentist cause and included it in its war strategy and national political platform. The consequence was the violent expulsion of  Italian speaking autochthonous inhabitants from the entire Eastern Adriatic coastline - from the southern Dalmatia to the Istrian peninsula - and the consequential erasing of two millennia of a very rich civilisation. Ethnic cleansing had happened in many parts of Europe in both old and modern times, so the demographic and cultural extirpation of Italian presence in Dalmatia, the Quarnero region and Istria is not really a new phenomena. But this slow, brutal and in 1945 also military operation had an unexpected development, something very peculiar. After erasing almost all the Italian speaking population in Dalmatia proper, without succeeding completely in the Quarner region and Istria, Communist Yugoslavia adapted a new form of genocide: the stealing of the “enemy’s” history in order to obliterate his memory and aggrandise the country. Completely ignored in the West, this skulduggery is a new Pandora’s box-Balkan style.
 
−
 
−
Croatia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia], a country of about 5 million inhabitants, has “nationalised” the history of her Adriatic coastline, a territory that had never been part of the Slavic hinterland, historically, politically and culturally. In order to totally “Croatianize“ the coastal territories, the country is manipulating their history and striving to “show” the world that Dalmatia, the Quarner region and Istria have “always” been Croatian. There is no actual political contingency to justify this operation: the old Italian irredentism ended up definitely in the dustbin of the history, and no other countries - except for Slovenia - have pressing territorial ambitions toward Croatia. Never methodically investigated, nobody knows how and when these history misappropriations started. In 1858-60 Ivan Kukuljevic Sakcinski, who belonged to Croatian nobility, published his “Slovnik umjetnikah jugoslavenskih”, an encyclopaedic dictionary of slav artists (then, Croatia was under Hungarian domination and Yugoslavia was still a dream). In this book among Slavic artists you can find the painter Vittore Carpaccio - born in Venice, 1460/65 ca. - 1525/26 ca. - only because Carpaccio used to create religious paintings commissioned by churches in Istrian peninsula and Dalmatia. Kukuljevic Sakcinski, a hot-headed nationalist, “opined” that the artist’s last name derived from a Croatian root: “Krpaci, Skrpaci or Krpatici”.
 
−
 
−
=== Republic of Ragusa ===
 
−
 
−
Take for example the history of the '''Republic of Ragusa''', (officially the city is known as Dubrovnik only from 1919 on). Ragusa has been an independent republic governed since the Middle Ages by a Latin/Illyrian families. When it was abolished in 1808 by the Napoleonic army, the small but influential and immensely rich maritime republic left a gigantic archive in which all government documents were written, first in Latin, then in Italian “vulgar”(Dalmatian) and finally in modern Italian (the Republic had an office in charge of translations from Slavic vernacular). In the daily business of the government and in diplomacy - Ragusa had over 80 consulates in every major European and Middle Eastern city -, the official language of the small republic was Italian. Furthermore, The Republic of Ragusa is remembered as ”The fifth Maritime Republic of Italy” (with Venice, Pisa, Amalfi and Genoa). For centuries, the well-to-do Ragusan families sent their children to study in the Italian universities. Across the Adriatic sea, Ragusans had daily contacts with Italy. The celebrated libraries of Ragusa were full of Italian editions of every kind, but no books printed in Slavic languages. Today in some Croatian history books the real history of Ragusa disappears almost completely.
 
−
 
−
The historians maintain that Dubrovnik “is an important page of the history of Croatia”, although Ragusa had only commercial liaisons with a Croatian territory that has not been a state for nine centuries. They repeat obsessively that the maritime republic was Croatian “almost since the beginning of her history”, that her merchant fleet was completely Croatian. Every family of the town’s aristocracy - Basilio, Cerva, Ghetaldi, Luccari, Menze, etc. - is given arbitrarily “the equivalent Croatian name“. All Ragusan state institutions are receiving Croatian denominations; all monasteries in town are presented as “Croatian”, although the clergy was Italian. You find all these misappropriations in [[Wikipedia]] “the free encyclopaedia” site, where the authors (clearly Croats) are demonstrating how grotesque are their pretensions when, at a certain point, they report the list of Ragusan senators who attended the last session of their Greater Council, the one in which it was announced that the glorious republic was dissolved (Aug. 29, 1814): of a little over forty incontestable Italian names of the senators, only one is of Croatian origin: Marino Domenico, count of Zlatarich.
 
−
 
−
In 2006, with his book “Dubrovnik - A history” published in England and sold in every English speaking country, the British author did an unwanted favour to the extremely voracious Croatian nationalistic historiography. Using only Croatian sources and materials, he wrote an essentially extremely nationalistic Croatian book in English language. Explaining his readers the mystery of place, institutions and personal Italian names translated into Croatian, he wrote: “I have used the Slavic form throughout, simply because that is the one most commonly found in the historiography” (obviously Croatian). “No other significance - he pointed out - is implied”. And with this elegant explanation, the deontology of the historian took a vacation. A “patriotic mission”.
 
−
 
−
Some Croatian historians and researchers are a legion of agit-props engaged in the “patriotic mission” of promoting the grandeur of their homeland. Their patriotism obeys to a categorical imperative: the country comes first, at any cost, even lying. They “Croatianize“ '''everybody''' and '''everything'''. Literally hundreds of public figures, artists, scientists, and academics - Italian Dalmatia had in XIX century 32 newspapers and periodicals, a rich history, an incredible artistic, academic and literary life, and glorious maritime traditions - today are mentioned as “Croatian“.
 
−
 
−
In 1998, writing for “The Atlantic” magazine''' Robert D. Kaplan''' (author of influential “Balkan Ghosts”) seemed to be the first American essayist to reveal the truth about the suppression of the Italian past of Ragusa by Croatia (and by extension of Dalmatia). ''“A nasty, tribal principality, he wrote - who are attempting to transform, in the old Republic, its character subtly from that of a sensuous, cosmopolitan mélange into a sterile, nationalistic uniformity”''. Of the original Italian speaking population of the town only about 40 individuals survived the ethnic cleansing. Unnoticed by academic authorities in the West, an implacable (first Panslavistic, then Pan Croat) “nationalization” of non-Croatian history continued for decades in a dramatic crescendo.
 
−
 
−
In the last half century it reached epidemic proportions:
 
−
*Andrea Antico, born in Motovun (Montona) in Istria, a composer and music publisher of the 1500s (he is studied in every music school of this globe), was re-baptised Andrija Staric (or Starcevic)
 
−
*The Renaissance painter Lorenzo De Boninis, born in Dubrovnik, is presented in Croatian history books and tourist guides as “Lovro Dobricevic”
 
−
*Nicola Fiorentino, an Italian born XVI century architect active for decades in Dalmatia, becomes the fake Croat “Nikola Firentinac“.
 
−
 
−
===Writers===
 
−
'''Giovan Francesco Biondi''', a writer born in 1572 on the Dalmatian island of Hvar (Lesina)  is introduced to the Western cybernauts as an improbable “Ivan Franc Biundovic”, although he was a diplomat (and maybe a spy) in the service of the Venetian Republic and with his three books is considered the first modern Italian novel writer. (The “super-patriotic” Croatians historians completely ignore the “Italian” aspects of his biography, reducing his creations to “an excellent history of the British civil wars while living in England” to be added to Croatian merits).
 
−
 
−
The case of '''Francesco Patrizi''', a XVI century philosopher and scientist who was a teacher of “La Sapienza” university in Rome, is almost incredible. He became “Franjo Petric” (or “Petricevic”), that means a “Croat”, only because he was born on the island of  Cres (Cherso) in the Quarner gulf. Croatian academic and political circles are so proud of “Franjo Petric” that almost every year they are holding in Zagreb, the capital of the country, and on “Cres“, an academic symposium dedicated to this magnificent intellectual mind. Many years ago they published one of his books printed in Italy in 1500s. They took the original, ornate volume, translated it into modern Croatian language and published it presenting the book as an anastatic edition of the original, in order to demonstrate the high level of their national civilisation in the 1500s (when Croatian capital Zagreb was still a village and Croatians in toto were still an agricultural/pastoral population). But they made a mistake: they used the Croatian diacritic signs (“accents” on certain consonants) invented only in the middle of the 1800s. Another example is that of Pier Paolo Vergerio, a catholic bishop and an historical figure in the turbulent times of the Reformation. He lived in Capodistria, a small town on the Istrian peninsula. In a Croatian history book, written by a Croatian academic and published in the USA, the bishop is presented as “Petar Pavao Vergerije”, without pointing out that he was Italian, that the town of Capodistria never had anything to do with Croatia, never had a noticeable Slavic minority among her population and today is part of Slovenia.
 
−
 
−
There is a Ragusan writer who, from 1909 up to today, underwent involuntarily to a name-change quiet a few times: Benko or Beno Kotruljevic, Kotruljic, Kotrulic or Kotrulj. Croatian historiographers do not care much in this regard. To them is important that this was “one of the first Croatian writers on scientific subjects”. “Croatian”, they repeated a hundred times in their essays on this historical figure. But that gentleman’s real name was '''Benedetto Cotrugli''' (or de Cotruglis). This is the way he signed his correspondence and also his famous book, ''“Della mercantura et del mercante perfetto.”'' one of the first manuals on merchandising, bookkeeping and “the good merchant”, published in '''Venice''' in 1573. This book is known in every university and a college with an Economy department. Cotrugli went to school and lived for all his adult life in Italy, serving as a diplomat the Kingdom of Naples and as director of the Mint in L‘Aquila. He never wrote anything in Croatian language. By the way, his book was published in Croatia only in 1963, five centuries after it was written. But he is considered “Croatian”. This kind of uncontrolled appetite is also directed toward classic antiquity.
 
−
 
−
===Archeology===
 
−
 
−
A reliable Croatian archeologist, '''Josip Vlahovic''', studied a bas-relief in the Split Baptistery, portraying a Middle Ages king on the throne, with a crown on his head and holding a cross. At his side there is a figure, maybe a court official, and in front of him another figure prostrated on the floor. Examining the clothing, hairstyle and other details, Vlahovic concluded, honestly, that the bas-relief was ”most probably” created by a band of Longobards, who settled in Dalmatian interior in the VI century before moving out of the territory, in an uncertain period, and disappearing.
 
−
 
−
According to '''Daria Garbin''', an archeologist living in Split, who wrote extensively about that Longobards,<ref> [http://books.google.com/books?id=GqUrAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA146&dq=Longobards&client=safari&cd=2#v=onepage&q=Longobards&f=false The Penny Cyclopædia of the Society for the Diffusion of Useful... ] Volume 14 By Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge (Great Britain)</ref> that the  bas-relief  king “could be” the Longobard Alaric. Finally, the elegant and rich book “Croatia in the Early Middle Ages - A cultural survey”, published by the Croatian Academy of Sciences and Arts, printed in London in 1999, and distributed in all English speaking countries, is embellished by a magnificent, full-page picture of the same bas-relief. Beside the picture, there is the explanation: “Marble carving of a Croatian king (maybe Zvonimir)”. Here the Longobards do not receive any attention. One of the most frequent tricks in this “propagandistic history” is to find a couple of Croatian personalities and squeeze between them the Slavicized name of an Italian local personality in order to “demonstrate” that a Dalmatian town was, yes inhabited by “some” Italians, but was predominantly Croatian.
 
−
 
−
Take for example Trogir, known for a millennia as the Italian Dalmatian town of Trau, incredibly rich in arts and architecture, and since 1997 protected by the '''UNESCO'''. On a Croatian Internet site you can notice that a humanist and writer from Trogir, Koriolan Cipiko, active in 1500s is sandwiched between two Croatian historical figures that had nothing to do with him nor Trogir. Here the intention is to ''“neutralized”'' completely that gentleman, whose real name was Coriolano Cippico, a member of an illustrious centuries old Dalmatian dynasty (of bishops, writers, philosophers, army and navy leaders, you name it) of Roman origin.
 
−
 
−
Another Croatian site says that “during this period Italian citizens, until 1918 the ruling class and almost half part of the population, were forced to leave for Italy”. Forced by whom? The authors of the site cautiously don’t say it. In another Croatian site we find that in the same period Trogir had 16.000 inhabitants, that means that 8.000 were Italians. Today the Italians living in Trogir are only a handful. There are literally hundred of episodes and cases like these, in numerous Croatian history books and tourist guides published in English language and distributed in the West, and now also on Internet. Outright falsehoods, half-truths, tendentious presentations, patriotic rhetoric and grotesque nationalistic grandiosity are very common in them. This part of the Croatian academic world knows no limits in the national appetite for glory, veneration of patriotic heritage, and stealing of other people’s cultural icons to show off.
 
−
 
−
===Marco Polo/Franz Joseph Haydn===
 
−
 
−
Nowadays in Croatia (and through Internet in the United States also) they maintain that '''Marco Polo''' was born on Croatian island of Korcula <ref>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curzola#History Wikipedia-Korcula History]</ref>  ''(historically Curzola; up to 1920s the main town of the island was populated by an Italian majority)'' and that he was a Croat, not a Venetian, without any document to prove it.
 
−
 
−
They also appropriate Giovanni da Verrazzano, the Tuscan explorer who is considered to be the first European to have discovered the bay of New York, in 1524 (decades before Henry Hudson). For this primacy his name was given to the spectacular modern bridge that connects Brooklyn with Staten Island. But now Verrazzano is proclaimed “Croat”. Why? Because while exploring the Eastern Atlantic coast going North, he used to give some Dalmatian names to certain territories and islands he discovered during his voyage. So Verrazzano becomes “Vranjanin or Vrancic”.
 
−
 
−
The same destiny is reserved to an Austrian composer, '''Franz Joseph Haydn''',<ref>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Haydn's_ethnicity Joseph Haydn's ethnicity]</ref> only because he was born (in 1723) in an Austrian region inhabited by a community of Croatian origins who settled there in VII century A.D. during barbarian invasions of Europe. Certain Croatian nationalistic historiographers are busy creating for their country the desolating fake image of a civilized and highly spiritual nation, using the heritage of a civilization the country eradicated in the first historically documented, but still unknown, Balkan ethnic cleansing.
 
−
 
−
Today nobody is noticing and condemning this threatening phenomena. These charlatans with a master degree are doing a tremendous disservice first of all to their own country. They are also dangerous. In a region in the past tremendously violent and today with so many unsolved problems, this kind of piracy is very ominous and should be stopped.
 
−
 
−
*Preceding unsigned comment added ''by'' ''200.112.16.153'' (28 December 2009)
 
−
 
−
== When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine ==
 
−
*[http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA62&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Neretljani]
 
−
 
−
* [http://books.google.com/books?id=p3oGybOY1w4C&pg=PA30&dq=When+ethnicity+did+not+matter+in+the+Balkans++John+Van+Antwerp+Fine++Slavonic+Neretljani&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Contradict himself]
 
−
 
−
*[http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html spiritus-temporis.com]
 
 
<!-- This is where the footnotes show up. -->
 
<!-- This is where the footnotes show up. -->
  
−
==References==
+
== References ==
−
<div class="references-small" style="-moz-column-count:1; column-count:1;">
+
<references/>
−
<references />
 
−
</div>
 
−
 
 
−
 
 
−
==External links==
 

Latest revision as of 09:43, 21 July 2011

Is Wikipedia taking on a darker tone? Where are the ethical and moral issues involved in creating articles with old communist propaganda rhetoric and it's false information? Is this the Balkan section of Wikipedia becoming the next Great Soviet Encyclopedia? This part of Wikipedia is not encyclopaedic work, pure and simple. The Wikipedia Point of View-History


Cazzo (www.sciforums.com):

Registered Senior User (1,028 posts) 04-07-08, 05:47 PM

  • When you bring up the topic of the Holocaust (of 6,000,000 jews) to neo-Nazis, they usually respond in 1 of 4 ways.

(1) They deny it ever happened.

(2) They say it was an "exaggeration" or a conspiracy theory.

(3) They try turning the tables or changing the subject.

(4) They say nothing at all.

The pure and simple fact is, they're evil people.

But what about neo-Communists ? (and many other leftists)

  • When you bring up the topic of nearly 100,000,000 civilians torchered and killed under Communist governments in the 20th century (not including deaths from wars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bla...k_of_Communism), they react in the same way as the 4 catagories above.
  • Another excuse leftists make for this attrocity is that they were not "true perfect" Communist societies; well you could say that Germany wasn't a "true fascist" State too.....
  • Public schools barely touch (if even mention) the Communist mass killings, and Hollywood has put out how many films about this ? 1 ? 2 ?

And yet, the Communists killed several times more of their own civilians than the Nazis did!

Think it's fair to say leftists that fit those 4 catagories are as evil as neo-Nazis?

by Cazzo (www.sciforums.com)


Research on Wikipedia’s Articles on the Former Yugoslavia

The Balkan World According to Wikipedia:

According to Wikipedia if a Commander happens to lose an estimate of 100 000 POWs after World War Two , it is not that important. Sixty years later it was established that they were murdered and place in old mine shafts, caves and forests. The information is not to be mention in his biography as it is irrelevant.

On the 23rd of April in 1948, in a speech Harry Truman (the President of USA) stated:

"I am told that Tito murdered more than 400 000 of the opposition in Yugoslavia before he got himself established there as a dictator"

Reference from: Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees [1] & Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman: Mission and Power in American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce [2] (US declassified documents from the 1990s)

  • Christopher Bennett: Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse: Causes, Course and Consequences "Tito remained a Stalinist to the end of his life. Tito" . [3] (book info)

Bennett, a British journalist who has the good fortune to speak both Slovenian and Croatian, a skill that has enabled him to draw heavily on literature of the region that would be unavailable to most American or British journalists.

  • Vladimir Tismaneanu: The Crisis of Marxist Ideology in Eastern Europe: The Poverty of Utopia. "Tito was a season Stalinist" [4]
  • Vesna Pusic-Croatia at the Crossroads/Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 "Tito, a Croat and a Moscow-trained communist, ...... While his was a single-party, totalitarian regime, Tito was more a shrewd pragmatist than an ideologue. " [5]


Notes on References

Contemporary views of Josip Broz that are clealy referenced:

  • A Personality Cult Transformed: The Evolution of Tito’s Image in the Former Yugoslavia 1974 – 2009/Tamara Pavasovic Trost Ph.D. Candidate Department of Sociology Harvard University USA.
  • Lorraine M. Lees is an associate professor of history at Old Dominion University in Virginia, USA.
  • Anne R. Pierce Ph. D. Political Science from the University of Chicago. Independent Scholar & Author/USA Author's Web Site*
  • BBC.UK/History Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941 - 1945 [6] By Dr Stephen A Hart

The article is written in the post Berlin Wall world. The Wiki article does not have the BBC as its source. This encyclopaedic articles clearly state the dark truth about Tito and his Army-Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941-1945

  • Dr Stephen A Hart is senior lecturer in war studies at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst. He is the author of The Road to Falaise: Operations "Totalize" & "Tractable" (Alan Sutton, 2004), "Montgomery " and "Colossal Cracks": The 21st Army Group in Northwest Europe, 1944-45 (Praeger, 2000).
  • Zdravko Dizdar [1]: In Mr Dizdar's Scientific Journal-An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross -Hrcak Portal of Scientific Journals of Croatia states that Tito asked the "Croatian Home Guard" to surrender or face the consequences of not surrendering. After the war ended POWs who did not surrender were slaughter on mass, estimates are about 100 000 victims in total.
  • Encyclopaedia Britannica [7] -The article is written post Berlin Wall but it's thin in terms of information, but does not hold back on economic realities: "At his death, the state treasury was empty."

The Wiki article has Encyclopaedia Britannica under its Notes section as its source, it might be just cosmetic.

  • BBC UK/History [8] by Tim Judah: "The economy was built on the shaky foundations of massive western loans." The article is also written in the post Berlin Wall world. The Wiki article does not have the BBC as it's source.
  • Tim Judah is a front line reporter for The Economist and author. A graduate of the London School of Economics and of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University he worked for the BBC before becoming the Balkans correspondent for The Times and The Economist. Judah is also the author of the prize-winning The Serbs: History, Myth and the Destruction of Yugoslavia, published in 1997 by Yale University Press.
  • Michael Portamm: 2003-2005 Fellow of the ZEIT Foundation in Hamburg, doctoral studies at the University of Vienna (Dr. phil.). Author Profile

Professional activities: Since 2006, staff at the Historical Commission of the Academy, since 2008 Lecturer at the Universities of Vienna and Bern.[2]

  • Genocide & Ethnic Cleansing: Genocide Carried out by the Tito Partisans: Hungarians & Italians [3]

Ref from: Communist Retaliation and Persecution on Yugoslav Territory During and After WWII [9]. by Dr. phil. Michael Portmann

Other Genocide & Ethnic Cleansing: Genocide carried out by the Tito Partisans/Danube Swabian History (former Yugoslavia) 1944-1948 [4]

  • David W. Del Testa has a Ph.D. in History from the University of California at Davis.

The below referenced information is from 'Government Leaders, Military Rulers and Political Activists: An Encyclopaedia of People Who Changed the World (Lives & Legacies Series)’ by David W. Del Testa.

Yugoslavia under Tito was a curious combination of relative economic and cultural freedom and total political repression and control. The lack of political freedom made debate on the role of ethnic identity in Yugoslavia impossible. Tito’s regime had created temporary stability in a historically unstable region. Treated almost as a mythic hero in his lifetime, Tito’s image began to decay in the years following his death, undermining the legitimacy of the regime so connected to his cult of personality.' [10]

David W. Del Testa’s statement succinctly sums up Josip Broz and his political life. One could say it is well balanced in the objective sense.

Ivo Goldstein: 'Croatia A History'. Josip Broz and his fellow communist were committing economic management suicide. The Wiki article does not have Ivo Goldstein as its source.

The articles clearly state:
1. Josip Broz Tito’s failure in addressing ethnic tensions of the former Yugoslavia;
2. Failure in the economic management of the former of Yugoslavia;

Note: Ivo Goldstein is a Professor at the University of Zagreb. The university is the oldest (1669) and biggest in South-Eastern Europe. The university has 29 faculties, three art academies and the Centre for Croatian Studies. With its comprehensive programmes and over 50,000 full-time undergraduate and postgraduate students. The University is the strongest teaching institution in Croatia. It offers a wide range of academic degree courses leading to Bachelor's, Master's and Doctoral degrees in the following fields: Arts, Biomedicine, Biotechnology, Engineering, Humanities, Natural and Social Sciences.

  • Commission on Concealed Mass Graves in Slovenia-created by Government of the Republic of Slovenia.

Academics involved:

  • Joze Dezman: Slovenian Historian-Director of the National Museum of Contemporary History-Ljubljana (Slovenian) National Museum of Contemporary History- Slovenia
  • Mitja Ferenc: Slovenian Historian-University of Ljubljana

(Identification of Skeletal Remains of Communist Armed Forces Victims During and After World War II Croatian Medical Journal)

  • Council of the European Union (January–June 2008) and the European Commission:

Reports and proceedings of the 8 April European public hearing on “Crimes committed by totalitarian regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency.

Totalitarian machine:

  • Abuse of national sentiment to carry out racial and class revolutionary projects;
  • Cult of a great leader, who permits his fanatics to murder, steal and lie;
  • Dictatorship of one party;
  • Militarisation of society, police state – almighty secret political police;
  • Collectivism, subjection of the citizen to the totalitarian state;
  • State terrorism with systematic abuses of basic human rights;
  • Aggressive assumption of power and struggle for territory.

Ref: Joze Dezman CRIMES COMMITTED BY TOTALITARIAN REGIMES [12] page 197 Slovenian Presidency of the-EU 2008 European Commission

Mass killings without court trials:

The Main Headquarters of the Yugoslav Army had already called attention to respecting the Geneva Convention on 3 May in its order on the treatment of prisoners of war. However, despite this injunction, both prisoners of war and civilians were killed massively at the end of May and in the first half of June 1945 in Slovenia. Tito’s telegram on respecting the Geneva Convention was later revoked; however, it could only be revoked by the person who issued it in the first place, i.e. Tito himself.

The killings without a trial were most massive in the first months after the war in 1945 and continued until the beginning of 1946. How extensive these killings were is illustrated by the fact that 581 hidden graves of victims of post-war killings without a court trial have thus far been found in the territory of Slovenia.

Ref: Milko Mikola CRIMES COMMITTED BY TOTALITARIAN REGIMES page 163 Slovenian Presidency of the-EU 2008 European Commission


Note: Natasa Kandic [5] Call for Cross-border War Crimes ‘Truth Commission’ By Pedja Obradovic-30 November 2009

A broad regional coalition of civil society associations from the countries of the former Yugoslavia is planning to strongly pressure the succession countries into forming regional commissions to establish the facts on war crimes and other severe violations of human rights.

Natasa Kandic: Founder and Director, Humanitarian Law Centre, Serbia and Montenegro.

  • Serbia to Uncover Mass Graves-Belgrade 13 August 2009 [6]

The Serbian Justice Ministry has announced that a state commission will be formed by September to mark out uncovered mass graves from 1944-46, daily Danas reported Thursday. The graves are thought to contain victims of Yugoslav leader Josip Broz Tito's Partisans.

  • Dr. Zoran Bozic: Tito ordered massacre of the Croatian population in May and June 1945

The purpose of this presentation is to contribute to the formulation and established chain of command and composition of the genocide perpetrators of one sixth of the entire Croatian population in May and June 1945. In this preparation partisan sources were used exclusively.

Dr. Zoran Bozic an official of the Croatian Association of Victims of Communism.

(Mr Bozic is a Doctor from Zagreb -Croatia, Master of Medical Science and has done 20 years intensive research into partisan communists in the former Yugoslavia)

  • Croatia: Amnesty International & PART II - LUSTRATION IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE

The Draft Law on Removing the Consequences of the Totalitarian Communist Regime, proposed by: the Croatian Party of Rights (1998 and 1999) aimed to systematically bar high-ranking party and state officials of the former regime from holding high-ranking offices in the new state, if in the past these persons had violated human rights and opposed the establishment of democracy.

The Law on the Security Services of the Republic of Croatia has been applied since 1 April 2002. The key intention of the law is the establishment of an appropriate model of supervision of their work (internal and external control). The law makes no distinction between the period from 1945 until 1990 and the period after 1990. Principally, the law allows for access to the documents and material. In the period 1990-1996 there were an estimated 2,200 dismissals and appointments of judges and state attorneys recorded in the Official Gazette.

In Croatia there have as yet been practically no major public debates on the past. [13]

Mr Dizdar's Scientific Journal Study Notes

  • Item A-An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross [14]

Translated: Josip Broz Tito, the supreme commander of the NOV and PO-Yugoslavia and President of the National Committee of Liberation of Yugoslavia, sent on 30 August. 1944:

"Last call to all deluded servants of the occupiers and to all Domobrani Croatian, Slovenian Domobrancima and seduced Chetniks to leave the occupier and surrender to the National Liberation Army by September 15, 1944, with a threat to all those who do not, will be brought before a war court, judged as traitors and punished by the strictest punishment and concerning on the issue of the Allies, they will not interfere in our internal matters and that no one will not stop to punish the traitors of the people and servants occupying forces." (See: N. BARIC, 2003, 496. / faksimil letka/) page 121

  • Item B- Z. Dizdar: An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross

According to the research of Z.Dizdar, Partisan General Aleksandar Rankovic was only answerable to Tito (page 128). Aleksandar Rankovic play a major role in these executions and the only person that could to give Rankovic such an order, was Tito. The report also states that there were huge Camps housing POWs, amongst them were women and children. On page 182 (66) it states that there were 24 422 children in the camps.[15]

  • Treba kazati kako su postojali još posebni logoru za folsdojčere, kojisu još 21. XI. 1944. od Predsjedništva AVNOJ-a proglašeni kolektivnimkrivcima i neprijateljima naroda, na osnovi cega je od nove komunistickevlasti izvršena konfisciranja njihove imovine te zapoceo njihov progon,uhicivanja i upucivanja u logore.130 Tako je 18. I. 1946. u jugoslavenskimlogorima bilo 117.485 folksdojcera (58.821 žena, 34.214 muškaraca i24.422 djece)

(Opširnije o tome vidi/ for more details: V. GEIGER, 200)

Communist Party of Yugoslavia, Tito & the Yugoslav Economy

Self-management as system was only slightly more efficient than the Soviet model. It was bureaucratised and cumbersome and could not compete with Western economies. People could obtain so much free or for less than the market price (e.g. apartments) that they could be obtain without work. All this made the settling of accounts in the 1980s and in the post-socialist age more difficult

In Tito’s system no interest or ideas could be expressed in a truly democratic way. This did most harm where feelings of ethnic identity were concerned because their suppression led to growth of extreme nationalism. Furthermore, the economic failure of Tito’s system, most clearly expressed in the protracted crisis of the 1980s, left people who even if they were not poor, were disillusioned and open to manipulation by demagogues. Finally Tito’s practical solutions ensured that he would retain unlimited power during his life time, but foreshadowed the problems would come after his death.

Professor Ivo Goldstein’s[7] work above proves that Josip Broz, put simply, was a bad economist and the Communists Party members were bad economists too. According to these and other references [8], this was one of the reasons that contributed to the break-up of Yugoslavia. As this was such a historical event, this information should be in the Wikipedia article in order to make it more encyclopaedic.

Deletion On Wiki Talk Page Josip Broz Tito (fun and games)

Dear reader just recently my thoughts on talkpage Tito have been deleted and it seems it’s going to stay that way. Since I am faced with the fact that my opinions are being suppressed and then eventually will be blocked, I’ve decided to put this out there so these events may be known to the wider wiki community.

The article in question is Josip Broz Tito (the former Dictator of Yugoslavia- East Europe). He was commander of the partisan forces during world war 2 and later a Stalinistic style dictator of the former Yugoslavia. The Wikipedic article is biased and does not mention crimes (Bleiburg massacre & foibe massacres)) against humanity that were committed under his leadership.

I registered that this should be part of the article and as a result I have been deleted. One writer was very abusive and deleted my writings on talk back pages. His name is DIREKTOR. He was supported by Ruhrfisch ><>°° I would like to quote some of the Direktor’s statements regarding this article just to inform you of what we are dealing with here.

“ Find yourself another one of your crappy "forums" to talk about your presumptions. Just forget about this, Luigi/Brunodam, you're not annoying anyone - you're just turning out amusing. I think I'll file a checkuser in an hour or so, you'd better believe it when I say I'll delete everything you wrote if you're a sock. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 15:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC) ”

These events are not some conspiracy. They have been part of the western media since the break up of the former Yugoslavia. They have been presented as TV documentaries, on talk back shows and in general writings in England, other parts of Europe and USA, Australia and other parts of the free world. They are backed by eye witness accounts by people who were actually caught up in these events.

The Croatian government is addressing these issues with investigations and financial reimbursement is being given to the victims. These are facts and should be present in the article and not deleted when someone points them out. These actions mirror the attitude of the regime that I am trying to expose.

The Josip Broz Tito article is a dangerous biased piece of writing. It would fit perfectly in any article of the old the Yugoslavia or the old Soviet Union propaganda machine (Cult of personality). Why is it there? The only answer it seems is that Wikipedia has some writers of extreme views (Stalin Style) who don’t tolerate being questioned.

Referenced from www.britannica.com: "The irony of Tito’s remarkable life is that he created the conditions for the eventual destruction of his lifelong effort. Instead of allowing the process of democratisation to establish its own limits, he constantly upset the work of reformers while failing to satisfy their adversaries. He created a federal state, yet he constantly fretted over the pitfalls of decentralization."

Tito was the commander of the Partisans and there are far too many examples of mass murders & mass arrests for it to be ignored (& there are many more). Any good encyclopedic article should make reference to them. It would be like Stalin without his rule of terror being documented. This just dosen't make sense in the modern world. What we have here is a clear avoidance of these issues (in the article), thus making it biased.

“ Direktor stated: they have absolutely nothing to do with Josip Broz Tito ”

Well then, what did Tito do? Did he let these horrible events just happen? Did he have a moral conscience (the war did end)? Was he incompetent? Was he the great leader that the Yugoslav Communist state propaganda machine portrayed him to be? Even the Wiki article states this. I have shown here credible references and sources to prove my argument, please take them into account.


References

  1. ^ Keeping Tito Afloat by Lorraine M. Lees.Keeping Tito Afloat draws upon newly declassified documents to show the critical role that Yugoslavia played in U.S. foreign policy with the communist world in the early years of the Cold War. After World War II, the United States considered Yugoslavia to be a loyal Soviet satellite, but Tito surprised the West in 1948 by breaking with Stalin. Seizing this opportunity, the Truman administration sought to "keep Tito afloat" by giving him military and economic aid.
  2. ^ American Foreign Policy by Anne R. Pierce
  3. ^ Yugoslavia's Bloody Collapse: Causes, Course and Consequences by Christopher Bennett
  4. ^ The Poverty of Utopia by Vladimir Tismaneanu
  5. ^ Croatia at the Crossroads Journal of Democracy - Volume 9, Number 1, January 1998, pp. 111-124 by Vesna Pusic
  6. ^ BBC-History Partisans: War in the Balkans 1941-1945
  7. ^ Encyclopædia Britannica: History & Society-Josip Broz Tito
  8. ^ BBC UK/History by Tim Judah
  9. ^ Communist Retaliation and Persecution on Yugoslav Territory During and After WWII by Dr. Ph. Michael Portmann-The following article deals with repressive measures undertaken by communist-dominated Partisan forces during and especially after WWII in order to take revenge on former enemies, to punish collaborators, and “people’s enemies“ and to decimate and eliminate the potential of opponents to a new, socialist Yugoslavia. The text represents a summary of a master thesis referring to the above-mentioned topic written and accepted at Vienna University in 2002
  10. ^ Government Leaders, Military Rulers and Political Activists: An Encyclopaedia of People Who Changed the World (Lives & Legacies Series) By David W. Del Testa, Florence Lemoine, John Strickland/ page181 Legacy
  11. ^ Croatia A History-Mc Gill Queen’s University Press Publication by Ivo Goldstein.
  12. ^ CRIMES COMMITTED BY TOTALITARIAN REGIMES Crimes and other gross and large scale human rights violations committed during the reign of totalitarian regimes in Europe: cross- national survey of crimes committed and of their remembrance, recognition, redress, and reconciliation Reports and proceedings of the 8 April European public hearing on “Crimes committed by totalitarian regimes”, organised by the Slovenian Presidency of the Council of the European Union (January–June 2008) and the European Commission.
  13. ^ Croatia & PART II - LUSTRATION IN CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE, Amnesty International
  14. ^ Hrcak Portal of Scientific Journals of Croatia by Mr Dizdar's Scientific Journal - An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross. This paper dedicated to the 60th anniversary of these tragic events represents a small step towards the elaboration of known data and brings a list of yet unknown and unpublished original documents, mostly belonging to the Yugoslavian Military and Political Government 1945-1947. Amongst those documents are those mostly relating to Croatian territory although a majority of concentration camps and execution sites were outside of Croatia, in other parts of Yugoslavia. The author hopes that the readers will receive a complete picture about events related to Bleiburg and the Way of The Cross and the suffering of numerous Croats, which is confirmed directly in many documents and is related to the execution of a person or a whole group of people and sometimes non-stop for days.
  15. ^ Hrcak Portal of Scientific Journals of Croatia by Mr Dizdar's Scientific Journal - An Addition to the Research of the Problem of Bleiburg & Way of the Cross. This paper dedicated to the 60th anniversary of these tragic events represents a small step towards the elaboration of known data and brings a list of yet unknown and unpublished original documents, mostly belonging to the Yugoslavian Military and Political Government 1945-1947.
Retrieved from "https://mywikibiz.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Peter_Z./Wikipedia_%26_Political_Agendas&oldid=139441"