Difference between revisions of "User talk:Peter Z./History Notes"

MyWikiBiz, Author Your Legacy — Monday November 18, 2024
Jump to navigationJump to search
(→‎If we put aside political correctness, concernig Korcula's history: The Croatians invaded the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine) province of Dalmatia)
Line 142: Line 142:
 
* [http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html ''Plus'':spiritus-temporis.com here]
 
* [http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/de-administrando-imperio/parts-about-croats-and-serbs.html ''Plus'':spiritus-temporis.com here]
  
−
== Concerns over Dalmatian Articles and Wikipedia ==
+
== Concerns over Dalmatian Articles (other Croatian articles too) and Wikipedia ==
 
Firstly it appears that Wikipedia has problems with interpreting the history of the Dalmatian region, with  it's multicultural and multiethnic history (& societies). There is a editing bias that seems to pre-vale  and in the end and the articles will then reflect ''points off view'', rather being encyclopaedic. As events are unfolding the bias goes mainly towards the former Communist Yugoslavia (or other-depending on the situation).
 
Firstly it appears that Wikipedia has problems with interpreting the history of the Dalmatian region, with  it's multicultural and multiethnic history (& societies). There is a editing bias that seems to pre-vale  and in the end and the articles will then reflect ''points off view'', rather being encyclopaedic. As events are unfolding the bias goes mainly towards the former Communist Yugoslavia (or other-depending on the situation).
  
 
==References==
 
==References==
 
<references/>
 
<references/>

Revision as of 23:14, 8 October 2010




Peter Z's Notes

  • Firstly it appears to me that the region (former Yugoslavia/West Balkans) has problems with interpreting multicultural and multiethnic history (& societies)!

Croatia DNA-Test

Taken from www.igenea.com [1]

  • Illyrian People 34%
  • Slav 20%
  • Celtic 18%
  • Teuton 12%
  • Phoenician 8%
  • Hellenic People 8%

(Editors notes: Oh Dear!)

If we put aside political correctness, concernig Korcula's history

If we put aside political correctness, one could ask the question what happened to the Latin families [2] on the island of Korcula (Corcyra Nigra) in the 8th century when the Croatians (Slavs) invaded. The Croatians invaded the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine) province of Dalmatia.

Events could have unfolded (& most probably did) which led to them being attacked and killed. The survivors could have fled from Korcula to Ragusa (Dubrovnik), then a place of refuge. Maybe some survived and remained on the island. It’s quite possible that the old town of Korcula was fortified and held out against the invaders. The town’s location is well placed to defend it self. Photo link here. Over the centuries it has had a strategic military position. The town of Korcula and Dubrovnik may have had very similar early histories.

Judging by what happened to the Roman cities of Dalmatia; Epidaurum, Narona and Salona (which were then part of the Byzantine Empire), these towns were destroyed. The Avari participated in these events too. This pattern of aggression of the Slavic tribes in conquering new territory must have continued during the following decades (& centuries) of the dark ages. In this historic period it is recorded that many of the churches on the island of Korcula were destroyed (then rebuilt at a later stage). [3]

It is likely that the new population settled in the centre of the island (Cara). The centre of the island had its strategic qualities which allowed protection on all sides from attack by sea. It also had fertile land which allowed cultivation. After the invasion of Slavic Tribes the region stabilised to a certain extent. The Byzantine Empire and the Republic of Venice started to exert a political influence over the region and it’s new peoples. These events have been recorded historically by both Empires in chronicles of the time. The Latin population eventually started to return to the island in larger numbers thus creating a historic multicultural and multiethnic society.

Dalmatians of Latin ancestry brought Mediterranean cultural to the Slavs. Christianity was one aspect of this. In essence the Croatians on the island were Romanized.

In 889 AD it is documented that there was a clash between the local Croatians (from Cara) and the Venetian army. The story is part of the Island of Korcula's oral history.

Korcula was part of Dalmatia

In 1918 Korcula (then called Curzola) was part of Dalmatia. Dalmatia was a province in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and was already more than a century old (Dalmatia itself as a region, dates back to the Roman Empire). According to the Austrian censuses it was predominately made up of Croatians and Italians (and other minorities). With the disintegration of the Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1918, Serbia started occupying the region (Italy did the same). This was part of the Treaty of Rapallo.[4] It was interpreted back then as the formation of the Kingdom of Serbia, Croatia & Slovenia.

The new kingdom had the support of Great Britain and France, who were the superpowers of the day. In retrospect this was a tragic move, one that the United States was against. The effects of this political stupidity are still felt today. It is interesting how this newly created state “Kingdom of Serbia, Croatia & Slovenia”, which later became better know as the ill fated Yugoslavia, was given a lot of support over the succeeding decades. This part of European history surely needs more academic attention.

Naši - The Us (ours) People

  • Grammatica Della Lingua Illirica by Francesco Maria Appendini (Ragusan-Dubrovnik/Italian) [5] A book on the Croatian language written in 1828. Section of the book here
  • Roman province of Illyricum (indigenous population of Korcula were Illyrians)

Lumbarda Psephisma is a stone inscription on the island of Korcula, in modern-day Croatia. It is believed that the psephism is from the 4th century B.C. The Greeks established a settlement on the basis of a prior agreement with the representatives of the local Illyrians who were Pil and his son Daz.

“ Quote: Best of luck. During the time of hieromnamon Praxidam in the month of Machaneus a contract was made to establish a colony between the people of Issa and Pil and his son Daz. Colony founders agreed upon and the people decided: those who where the first to occupy the land and built a wall around the city would get a special land to build houses within the fortified city, especially with a part, and of the land which was outside the city, so that those first people separately obtain the first lot of three plethrons separated from the land, and from the other parts, to write down (what lot and what part) each of them obtained, and in permanent ownership they (and their descendants) get one and a half plethrons each; subsequent colonists are to get from undistributed land in the field four and a half plethrons; the authorities swear never to divide the city or land again; if someone of the authority proposes something or someone agrees against this (Psephism), let he or she be dishonoured, and his or her property should become public property; the person who kills him or her is not to be punished……… This land was obtained and the city walls built by: Dymanes, Hylleis & Pamphylois. [6] ”
  • Below taken from Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina by John Gardner Wilkinson. Published in 1848 (p33).
“ Naski (ours) or Illirskee is a Slavonic Dialect.[7] ”
  • Editors notes: Naski or in Croatian Naški. The š is pronounced sh. (Interesting: Blato was called Blatta)
  • Korcula Dialect (or Korčulanski) is a Croatian dialect from the island of Korcula in Croatia. According to the Croatian Anthropological Society in their Collegium Antropologicum (Volumes 15-16) the language base of the Korcula dialect is Chakavian Croatian (it is also intermixed with Shokavian).[8] The dialect has remnants of the extinct Romance language, Dalmatian. [9] The Dalmatian remnants within the dialect have been referred to as Corzulot. Additionally it has influences of Venetian.
  • Defora in old Venetian means "from the outside".

Island of Korcula

Signor Arneri stated: [10]

“ These three pears you see on the wall," said he, "are the arms of my family. Perussich was the name, when, in the earlier part of the fifteenth century, my ancestors built this palace; so that, you see, I am Dalmatian. All the family, fathers, sons, and brothers, used to serve in the fleets of the Republic (Republic of Venice); but the hero of our race was Arneri Perussich, whose statue you see there, who fought, bled, and died at the Siege of Candia, whose memory was honoured by the Republic, and whose surviving family was liberally pensioned; so his name of our race. We became Arneri, and ceased to be Perussich ”

According to Marinko Gjivoje, Perussich is Piruzović''.[11]

Local folk song: Zbogom, Moja Bobovišća Vala

Zbogom, Moja Bobovišća vala
kad san kanta, sva is odavala
Druga mladost kad bude kantati
valo moja, nemoj odavati"
Zbogom, moje sve od Blata divnje
s kojima san uźa pasat vrime
(traditional)

Translation:

Goodbye my Bobvisca bay
When I sang ...
  • Indigenous population of Korcula were Illyrians.[12] It is believed that the Illyrians arrived in the Balkans approximately 1000 BC.[13]
  • Greek colony was founded on Korcula.[14] Greek colonists from Corcyra (Corfu) formed a small colony on the island in the 6th century B.C. The Greeks named it "Black Corfu" after their homeland and the dense pine-woods on the island.
  • The island became part of the Roman province of Illyricum. [15] After the Illyrian Wars. Roman migration followed and Roman citizens arrived on the island. [16] In 10 AD Illyricum was split into two provinces, Pannonia and Dalmatia.[17] Korcula became part of the ancient Roman province of Dalmatia.
  • In the 6th century it came under Byzantine Empire rule.
  • The Great Migrations of the 6th and 7th centuries, brought the Slavic peoples[18] into the Dalmatia region. Croatians (Slavs) arrived on the island in the 8th century.
  • Second Slavic Migration in 17th & 18th century.

Additional:

  • Venetian & Ragusan families (Jewish families from Spain).
  • Korcula originally a Latin town. Latter became Latin/Venetian/Slavic (Croatian).
  • Cara (or Čara) originally Slavic (Croatian) village.

Interesting: Cara used to be called Hara. The Austria-Hungary census registered Cara's name as Kcara. The Statute of Korcula was first drafted in 1214. It was probably written by Latin & Slavic (Croatian) Nobility.

“ Historic quote: "In 1262 the Venetians praised the Slavs and Latins on the island of Korcula for submitting to the prince Venice" [19] ”

In 16 century Stone writings in Zavalatica are dedicated to events from 889 AD. It describes a clash between the Croatians and the Venetian army. Marinko Gjivoje wrote about the find in 1972. The stone writings states: Hrvat Dalmatinac in its writings.Hrvat means Croatian in Slavic.[20]

Note: Croatian (Slavs)[21][22][23][24] started to be referred too (& referred themselves) mainly as Dalmatians Slavs or Dalmatians, sometime post 11th Century.[25]

Korcula's old name was Corzula. The Old-Slavic term was Krkar. (Korcula a historically a multicultural and multiethnic society)

Latin/Illyrian/Slavic communities history of the historic Republic of Ragusa & Republic of Venice became a political football for the former Communist Yugoslavia.

  • Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families.
  • Republic of Venice was set up by Latin families.

(Venice acquired Slavic & other Latin populations through conquering)

Slavic communities later became part of these City States, which later became Republics.

Famous mixed marriages within these communities :

  • Roger Joseph Boskovich (Republic of Ragusa)
  • Fausto Veranzio (Republic of Venice)

Their family heritage were Croatian & Italian.

Austro-Hungarian census 1816 registered: 66 000 Italian speaking people among the 301 000 inhabitants of Dalmatia. (ref from: Montani, Carlo. Venezia Giulia, Dalmazia - Sommario Storico - An Historical Outline)

Republic of Ragusa

Republic of Ragusa was set up by Latin/Illyrian families. The Republic's city, Ragusa (today called Dubrovnik) was established in the 7th century, post Slavic and Avar invasions. The refugees from Epidaurum (a Roman city) built the settlement in Dalmatia, today in southernmost modern Croatia. Over the centuries the City State-Ragusa started to have relations with the Slavic hinterland, then called Red Croatia (this term for the region ceased to be used from the 11th century onwards). Ragusa itself became an independent state in 1358.

The Croatians (Slavs), some time in the middle ages started to be part of the Republic's population.The Croatians from the 11th century onwards were mainly called Dalmatians Slavs.[26][27][28][29] The 1667 Dubrovnik earthquake,[30] which destroyed the greater part of Dubrovnik has been cited as a turning point for the Republic's ethnic population make up. The Slavic population in the Republic would have been Romanised (adopted Latin culture).

In John Van Antwerp Fine's book "When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans" the population of the Republic in the 15-century was describe as mainly Slavic. This is very plausible, (that by the 15 century) the surrounding area of the city of Dubrovnik, the Slavs would have been in the majority.[31]

There is a theory that the actual Croatisation (Pan-Slavism) [32] of the region started to happen in the 19-century, with the Republic becoming part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire (then called the Habsburg Monarchy). The second theory is that it was much earlier.

Sir John Gardner Wilkinson

Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (October 5, 1797 – October 29, 1875) was an English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century. He is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology". He was in Dubrovnik in 1848, this is what he wrote in his "Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina":

“ Their language though gradually falling into Venetianisms of the other Dalmatians towns, still retains some of that pure Italian idiom, for which was always noted. (page 362) ”
“ Italian is spoken in all the seaports of Dalmatia, but the language of the country is a dialect of the Slavonic, which alone is used by peasants in the interior.(page 4) ”

Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide)

  • Dalmatia-The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (a 1910 travel guide from COSIMO books and publications New York USA):
“ Two hundred years later that, is, early in the tenth century you might have heard Slavish and Latin spoken had you walked in the streets of Ragusa, just as you hear Slavish and Italian today; for as times of peace followed times of war, the Greek and Roman inhabitants of Rausium intermarried with the surrounding Slavs, and so a mixed race sprang up, a people apart from the rest of Dalmatia. (p121) [33] ”

Editor's notes: It's quite possible that the Republic was for centuries a multicultural and multiethnic society! It's ruling class were of mostly of Latin decent, but not all! Peter Z. 06:13, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

When ethnicity did not matter in the Balkans: a study of identity in pre ... By John Van Antwerp Fine

Concerns over Dalmatian Articles (other Croatian articles too) and Wikipedia

Firstly it appears that Wikipedia has problems with interpreting the history of the Dalmatian region, with it's multicultural and multiethnic history (& societies). There is a editing bias that seems to pre-vale and in the end and the articles will then reflect points off view, rather being encyclopaedic. As events are unfolding the bias goes mainly towards the former Communist Yugoslavia (or other-depending on the situation).

References

  1. ^ www.igenea.com
  2. ^ Korcula the island became part of the Roman province of Dalmatia
  3. ^ According to recent studies done at the University of Zadar, Croatians on the island of Korcula accepted Christianity fully in the 14th and 15th Century. Reference from: University of Zadar-Sociogeographic Transformation of the Western Part of Korcula Island by Lena Mirosevic-2008/page 161
  4. ^ Encyclopedia Britannica-Dalmatia:
    • Venetian rule, established in 1420 when the king of Croatia, Ladislas of Naples, ceded the country to the Venetian republic, ended in 1797. This period was marked by Venetian warfare against the Turks. When the French gave Venice to Austria under the Treaty of Campo Formio (1797), Dalmatia became Austrian also; but in 1805, under the Treaty of Pressburg, Austria had to cede Dalmatia to Napoleon. It was returned to Austria after Napoleon’s fall and remained an Austrian crownland until 1918.
    • Finally, the Treaty of Rapallo (Nov. 12, 1920) between Italy and Yugoslavia gave all Dalmatia to the Yugoslavs except the mainland Zadar (Italian: Zara) enclave and the coastal islands of Cres, Losinj (Lussino), and Lastovo.
  5. ^ Grammatica della lingua Illirica by Francesco Maria Appendini
  6. ^ Hrcak Portal of scientific journals of Croatia: Lumbarda Psephisma, the Oldest Document about the Division of Land Parcels in Croatia from the Beginning of the 4th or 3rd Century BC by Miljenko Solaric & Nikola Solaic (University of Zagreb).
  7. ^ Dalmatia and Montenegro: With a Journey to Mostar in Herzegovina by Sir John Gardner Wilkinson
    • Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (October 5, 1797 – October 29, 1875) was an English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century. He is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology".
  8. ^ Collegium Antropologicum, Volumes 15-16 by Croatian Anthropological Society-1991.Pages 312 & 318.
  9. ^ Collegium Antropologicum, Volumes 15-16 by Croatian Anthropological Society-1991. Page 311.
  10. ^ Researches on the Danube and the Adriatic: By Andrew Archibald Paton. Chapter 4. The Dalmatian Archipelago.p164
    • Andrew Archibald Paton (1811-1874) was a British diplomat and writer from the 19 century.
  11. ^ Otok Korčula (2nd edition) by Marinko Gjivoje, Zagreb 1969.
    • The book outlines A-Z about the island of Korcula, from traditions, history, culture to wildlife, politics & geography. Page 46-47: Piruzović .
  12. ^ The Cambridge Ancient History Vol. 11 : The High Empire, AD 70-192 by Peter Rathbone
  13. ^ The Illyrians (The Peoples of Europe) by John Wilkes,ISBN 0631198075-1996
  14. ^ An Inventory of Archaic and Classical Poleis: An Investigation Conducted by The Copenhagen Polis Centre for the Danish National Research Foundation by Mogens Herman Hansen,2005,Index
  15. ^ Encyclopedia Britannica.
    • The Roman province of Illyricum stretched from the Drilon River (the Drin, in modern Albania) in the south to Istria (modem Slovenia and Croatia)
  16. ^ Croatian Adriatic: History, Culture, Art & Natural beauties
  17. ^ John Everett-Healu. "Dalmatia." Concise Dictionary of World Place-Names. Oxford University Press. 2005. Encyclopedia.com
  18. ^ A History of the Croatian by Francis Ralph Preveden (1955)
  19. ^ When Ethnicity Did not Matter in the Balkans: by John Van Antwerp Fine. p103
  20. ^ History-Korcula.net Marko Marelic-S. Francisco-USA
  21. ^ Byzantium's Balkan Frontier: A Political Study of the Northern Balkans, 900-1204 by Paul Stephenson
  22. ^ Presbyter Diocleas: De Regno Sclavorum; Ioannes Lucius: De Regno Dalmatie et Croatiae (Amsterdam 1666) 287-302; Schwandtner Scriptores Rerum Hungaricarum III (Vienna) 174; Sl. Mijušković: Letopis Popa Dukljanina-1967)
  23. ^ Flavius Blondus: Historiarum ab Inclinatione Romani Imperii, dec II, lib II (Venetiae 1483, f. 115 r; ed Basilea 1559) 177.
  24. ^ Andrea Dandolo (1300-1354), the Venetian author of Chronicle of Dalmatia, who writes of Croatian lands (Dalmatian Kingdom), reiterated the boundaries of Red Croatia
  25. ^ When Ethnicity Did not Matter in the Balkans: by John Van Antwerp Fine. p162
  26. ^ When Ethnicity did not Matter in the Balkans by John Van Antwerp Fine
  27. ^ Venice, a Maritime Republic by Frederic Chapin Lane. Page 24
  28. ^ Venice and its Story by Thomas Okey
  29. ^ Great Powers and Geopolitical Change by Jakub J. Grygiel
  30. ^ Earthquake Monitoring and Seismic Hazard Mitigation in Balkan Countries by Eystein Sverre Husebye
  31. ^ When Ethnicity Did Not Matter in the Balkans: by John Van Antwerp Fine
  32. ^ Encyclopedia Britannica:19th-century movement that recognized a common ethnic background among the various Slav peoples of eastern and east central Europe and sought to unite those peoples for the achievement of common cultural and political goals. The Pan-Slav movement originally was formed in the first half of the 19th century by West and South Slav intellectuals, scholars, and poets, whose peoples were at that time also developing their sense of national identity.
  33. ^ Dalmatia: The Land Where East Meets West by Maude Holbach (p121)
    • "DALMATIA: The Land Where East Meets West is MAUDE M. HOLBACH's second book of travel in Eastern Europe. First published in 1910, this is an anthropological travel journal of an often-overlooked kingdom"
    • Web site: www.cosimobooks.com
Retrieved from "https://mywikibiz.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Peter_Z./History_Notes&oldid=127935"