User talk:MyWikiBiz

MyWikiBiz, Author Your Legacy — Monday November 18, 2024
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Past discussions are archived here:

Aricle not doing well in google

this article Sarey Savy is number 15 on google i need to make it number one! Help! please?! (Michael Chen 21:06, 11 February 2010 (PST))

You just created it. It may take some time to get to #1. Also, it will help if you go to other websites (Facebook, MySpace, Wikia, etc.) and try to get an external link placed FROM there TO this article here. I will look at the Sarey Savy page and see if I can help matters with the semantic tagging in the article. -- MyWikiBiz 06:00, 12 February 2010 (PST)

Thanks man this is WAY better than Wikipedia =] If i could give away awards for best wikis i would give you millions and you'd win all the time =] (Michael Chen 08:42, 12 February 2010 (PST))

Oh it's decreasing it's rank on google. (Michael Chen 09:08, 12 February 2010 (PST))

Why is it decreasing? (Michael Chen 09:47, 12 February 2010 (PST))

It probably senses your panic. Seriously, calm down -- these things take time. And there's no saying that this page is going to go to #1 -- there's already a page on MySpace and on Facebook. They tend to perform stronger than MyWikiBiz. Have you set up any inbound, "dofollow" links on other sites? -- MyWikiBiz 12:52, 12 February 2010 (PST)

Yes it is linked on myspace facebook etc. (Michael Chen 14:03, 12 February 2010 (PST))

What can i do to improve the google ranking? (Michael Chen 21:40, 12 February 2010 (PST))

Mr. Chen, may I ask how old are you? Please read this and follow what you learn there. These are basic tips for boosting the Google ranking of a site or page you wish to optimize. Good luck! -- MyWikiBiz 06:51, 13 February 2010 (PST)

Thanks! It's number 3 on google ranking! Can't you take the Directory talk out? (Michael Chen 10:37, 13 February 2010 (PST))

Okay it fell down it's not even on google!!! I just deleted my history and everything then the next thing you know Sarey Savy-Mywikibiz is GONE! (Michael Chen 16:01, 14 February 2010 (PST))

The directory doesn't show up but, yet when i take the directory out it does at number 3. (Michael Chen 09:39, 15 February 2010 (PST))

Problems With SVG Images

Hi, Greg, there's some kind of problem with SVG images. Maybe we're a couple of MediaWiki updates behind?

Jon Awbrey 10:50, 16 February 2010 (PST)

We will look into it and seek a repair. -- MyWikiBiz 13:42, 16 February 2010 (PST)

Can you please explain to me what your site is for?

I don't want to break any rules here. I really don't want to be banned from here. They banned me at wikipedia review and it just hurt my feelings even more. I would like to help out here, but I don't want any more bans because it makes me feel bad. I guess I have a very big problem with following or understanding site rules, so if you could please help me out with what you expect here and what this is for - before I do anything wrong and get banned I would appreciate it.Wiki Greek Basketball 12:45, 19 February 2010 (PST)

This page should answer most of your questions. I'm happy that you're here. Not looking to ban you. In fact, three of the four top contributors to MyWikiBiz.com are blocked on Wikipedia. You basically have a lot of options here, but the first thing you need to square away is whether you are going to try to make a little bit of money here (more effort and slightly more rules to obey), or whether money is not of interest to you (easier, and fewer rules to stay on top of). -- MyWikiBiz 17:10, 19 February 2010 (PST)

Wikia

Do you suppose Wikia would be profitable by now, or ever if Wikipedia did not tag Wikia links with the "nofollow" tag for however long? Do you know for how long they were not tagged with "nofollow"?

I saw that you posted this link, I think on WR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&limit=5000&offset=20000&target=http://*.wikia.com

So there are like 22,000 Wikia links? Wow. Wikademia

Considering that Wikia is only barely profitable at this time (and with $14 million sunk into it, and likely very little of that recuperated), I would honestly suggest that Wikia would not be profitable by now if they hadn't had the early and ongoing boost(s) from Wikipedia-based link relevance and traffic. If you add to this how often Jimmy Wales has traveled on purportedly a Wikimedia Foundation "mission", but manages to talk about Wikia even briefly to large audiences, then I am absolutely certain Wikia would be well underwater without that self-promotional boost. -- MyWikiBiz 09:18, 18 March 2010 (PDT)
But it is probably legal to do things like that I suppose? I am not a lawyer. I have no idea. Wikademia
Oh, I'm sure it's legal... up until the point the IRS decides to conduct an audit of either your personal or your corporation's taxes. But, regardless; the real point is when you consider how Wales speaks so glowingly of his free (and freewill) contributions to the Wikimedia Foundation mission (with no mention of how he's appropriated that mission to almost entirely drive his personal fortunes), his character is revealed to be that of a hypocrite when he speaks with revulsion about those who would "exploit" Wikipedia for profit. You're smart enough to see through that phony baloney, right? -- MyWikiBiz 14:15, 18 March 2010 (PDT)
Self deception maybe? Or maybe just the way capitalism has to work? Wikademia

Wikademia and Wikieducator

I'm sure you'd be welcome to edit on both of those. Wikademia

Have you seen the Alexa ratings of WikiEducator? They are a bit lower than MyWikiBiz. I'd reach more people working here. As for Wikademia, let me know when it reaches the top million on Alexa. -- MyWikiBiz 21:50, 21 March 2010 (PDT)


Hi MyWikiBiz

I would like to edit the article 'Greg James Sculpture Studio Gallery' but it appears to be locked. The article was created by Peter Z. who doesn't seem to have any problems in editing it. My menu bar displays on the article 'View Source'. Can you please help? Greg James Sculpture 21:11, 31 March 2010 (PDT)

It is open now to your being able to edit it. However, be advised, once you make an edit, you will become the "owner" of the article (because it's in Directory space), and others (including Peter) will not have access to edit. That's how our Directory space is set up at MyWikiBiz -- it's intended to be one-editor-only. If the two of you are both equally interested in editing it, I would suggest creating a joint account between you and share the password. -- MyWikiBiz 21:30, 31 March 2010 (PDT)
Thank you Greg James Sculpture 21:47, 31 March 2010 (PDT)

Title Help

Hi MyWikiBiz! Could you please help me. I've created a new article & left a dot at the end of the title: Directory:Robert Dawkins-The Silver Gallery. Is their a way of removing the dot, because I can't figure out how to do it? Regards:) Peter Z. 19:34, 7 April 2010 (PDT)

I have moved it to a new location, sans period. -- MyWikiBiz 04:55, 8 April 2010 (PDT)
Thanks. Peter Z. 05:38, 8 April 2010 (PDT)

Help:SMW

There is a note on one of my pages which says that ASK is no longer supported but to use 'SMW'. Is there any documentation on this pls? (Couldn't find any). Ockham 19:50, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Does this have anything to do with it? If I can figure this out I will add some help files. Ockham 19:52, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that is exactly the page I was going to point you to, Ockham. This was one of the most frustrating aspects of our transfer to a new server host and a complete upgrade/update to both the most current Mediawiki core software, but also the most current Semantic Mediawiki extension that used to run all of our Attributes and Relations. Now, both Attributes and Relations are lumped into a new field called "Properties". And instead of using a := for Attributes, all Properties now need a :: instruction. I'm going to be hiring a coder to try to make some of these universal, global changes to try to make things a bit more polished around here. -- MyWikiBiz 02:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Hi thanks. I tested the medieval philosophers query with the SMW syntax but still doesn't work. I think it needs a professional to set us on the right road and then we can take it from there. Ockham 07:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

[edit] ah my mistake. It does work (see this version of the page). Ockham 07:23, 6 May 2010 (UTC) {edit] The key is to remember that it doesn't support the '=<' sign. '<' in SMW means 'less or equal to'. Otherwise you get the bug. Ockham 07:40, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

How about this

I think SMW is going to be more powerful than ASK. I have created a new version of List_of_Scholastic_Texts, which as you can see now supports links to the authors, which the old version never did.

I am going to experiment with catalogues of medieval manuscripts. I have a digitised version of M.R.James catologue of manuscripts held in Gonville and Caius' library. This has details of condition, production date or century, lists of Authors and so on. There are currently projects to take catalogues like these and use professional software developers in the old-fahshioned and expensive way, to build large and difficult-to-maintain databases that only professional developers (rather than users) can understand. Using environments like this, you hardly need developers. A team of users and experts working together can quickly build a database that is far easier to use and far more transparent than any expensive database developed in the traditional IT-led way.

The problem is to get the users (i.e. medievalists or whoever) to understand how powerful this can be, and how easy to use. I will make some experiments with the James catalogue and if this works I will publish something in 'Digital Medievalist'. Ockham 08:27, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree that while this was a painful upgrade, the opportunities for even better uses of the Semantic architecture are worth it. I am very, very pleased (you don't know how much) that a "regular user" figured this out and will be setting an example for others. I'm going to be hiring the coder later today or tomorrow, and I hope that he'll do quite a lot to help "clean up" the old messes left behind by the upgrade. -- MyWikiBiz 16:35, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, it's no problem. I also succeeded in setting up List_of_medieval_manuscripts as mentioned above. This points to pages like Directory:Logic_Museum/Caius_344/540 which are a much better way of structuring information than in the old Directory:Logic_Museum/Manuscripts, which is the old Wikipedia-style of hard-coding a list of things that cannot be sorted or filtered or categorised. If I have time I will write a little 1-2-3 tutorial that will take someone used to the old ways and show them the new way. Ockham 17:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Access to The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View

Hi Greg I have lost edit rights to The_Wikipedia_Point_of_View. I can edit subdirectories of it, and other directories I own, but not this. Oddly, Peter Z seems able to edit it. How strange. I was going to start a subdirectory on terrible economics articles. Ockham 17:24, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Try again. We're working on this issue. -- MyWikiBiz 17:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
No. Still 'View source' only.Ockham 18:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Problems with my articles

Hi MyWikiBiz! There are problems with my articles. What do you think is going on? link Peter Z. 00:56, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

This one too. link Peter Z. 01:34, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello Greg

How are you doing? Would it be ok if i posted some pages here that i made elsewhere? Raf 19:11, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I also noticed your paid wiki-gnome thread, but how do you send money to people online, and is it valid for people who live outside the USA? Raf 19:13, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it's okay to post pages that you made elsewhere, as long as you have rights to do so, and that the pages don't violate our own terms of service. Payment for wiki-gnoming can be via PayPal.com, or via a mailed commercial check drawn in US dollars on a US bank. If neither of those options work, then I'm not sure how to transact. -- MyWikiBiz 19:25, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

So in theory, i just have to set up a pre-paid card with PayPal and then it's all good for transferring money, from any country to any country? Raf 20:27, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure certain limitations and restrictions apply, so see PayPal.com for details. However, I know that I have transacted payments internationally on PayPal, multiple times. As for this particular wiki-gnoming project, though... I believe I have another taker working on it now. For a $15 Om nom nom nom payment to the Wikimedia Foundation. Ugh. -- MyWikiBiz 14:41, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Om nom nom nom? ... Well for my part give 1 dollar to the WMF with a comment like "Wikipedia keeps being child friendly with appropriate pictures for an encyclopedia" or something like that. The other 14 dollars could go to this, he puts a lot of time for his non-profit hobby to give advice on how to fight obesity and sedentary lifestiles. Also, if you donate 200 $ or more to him, he will give you a t-shirt. Raf 19:55, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the possible pages i can import here, they're mostly not business related and are quite obscure topics, to which i have no relation at all. Since there are pages like Directory:Quasi Brands, would they be fine here? Raf 21:26, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Raf, did you read the terms of service? Here, we seek to fashion this site as a safe, pleasant environment for gentle people of ages 13 and older. The management reserves the right to delete the following sorts of content at any time: pornography, adult or mature content, pedophilia or the advocacy of pedophilia, illegal gambling or wagering, gratuitous violence, hate speech, fraudulent information, and business scams. Editors who self-identify as proponents or behave in a way that strongly suggests they are proponents of any of these topics will be blocked indefinitely. These types of content are also restricted by Google AdSense, and because AdSense currently displays on many editors' content pages on MyWikiBiz, we cannot jeopardize AdSense account(s) with such prohibited content. If your obscure content doesn't seem to ruffle these terms, you should be fine. -- MyWikiBiz 03:13, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

The Letter

Title: The Letter
Artist: Greg Kohs
Composer: Wayne Carson Thompson and Barsoom Tork Associates
YouTube: The Letter — The Box Tops (1967)

Gimme a tax break for a donation,
My column's more fun than Sony PlayStation.
Boring days are gone, I'm a-goin' strong,
'Cause Jimbo just wrote me a letter.

I don't care how much money he's gotta spend,
Getting back to New York again
Boring days are gone, my column's going strong,
'Cause Jimbo just wrote me a letter.

Well, he wrote me a letter
Said he couldn't fly without some more dough.
Listen friends, can't you see he's got to get back
To New York once more --anyway...

Gimme a tax break for a donation,
My column's more fun than Sony PlayStation.
Boring days are gone, I'm a-goin' strong,
'Cause Jimbo just wrote me a letter.

Well, he wrote me a letter
Said he couldn't fly without some more dough.
Listen critics, can't you see we got to get back
To Wikimania once more --anyway...

Gimme a tax break for a donation,
My column's more fun than Sony PlayStation.
Boring days are gone, my column's going strong,
'Cause Jimbo just wrote me a letter.
Because Jimbo just wrote me a letter.


CopyClef 2010 Wayne Carson Thompson and Barsoom Tork Associates.
Resurrection Hackware. All songs abused.

e-mail

I sent you an e-mail. Did you receive it? Jonas Rand 02:35, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I did. -- MyWikiBiz 19:43, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Delete "Sarey Savy"

Hi may i ask you to delete "Sarey Savy". The article has been created on a wikipedia. Thanks! (Michael Chen 04:06, 27 January 2011 (UTC))

Are you sure about that? Let me know. -- MyWikiBiz 20:40, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Oops i mean on Wikinfo he is featured. Sarey featured

Michael, I'll be happy to delete any page that you created, but I'm really confused why you'd want to delete something here, just because it now also appears on another web site (and one that gets less than one-third of our traffic reach). -- MyWikiBiz 05:00, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok well at least til' the article stays may we just take the semantic rankings tag for now than add it again later? (Michael Chen 08:49, 28 January 2011 (UTC))

Recent Edited

Thanks for the recent edited Peter Z. 02:32, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Do You Know Of Other Sites Like MyWikiBiz?

Do You Know Of Other Sites Like MyWikiBiz? That is my question. Thank you. Geoff White 04:59, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the sites I typically point to as possible similar venues are Wikipedia, AboutUs, Wikinfo, MerchantCircle, HotFrog, and NetKnowledge. -- MyWikiBiz 14:45, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Problematic Edits

Hi, Greg, been away for a while, but noticed a few problematic edits and editors creeping in.

  1. [1]

— Jon Awbrey 11:50, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Frustrating how spam bots have apparently found an automated technique to register here, confirm registration, then post one new page, never to return. I'm going to look into how we can limit them, maybe with a captcha. -- MyWikiBiz 15:20, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
I know, it's almost enough to make one think that maybe wikis are not such a hot idea, after all … Jon Awbrey 22:07, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Greg, more problematic stuff at the top of recent changes. Been real busy with local politics lately, but I tend to notice these sorts of things whenever I recommend a new batch of users to the site. Jon Awbrey 04:56, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Jon. I've deleted a few of them, but the solution will have to be a captcha for new account registration. I have my developer working on it, but he's been busy. Might have to outsource the task soon. This is really out of hand. -- MyWikiBiz 12:33, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
Hello MyWikiBiz! Problematic edits are happening again. Regards Peter Z. 10:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I didn't realize that I forgot to mention that we've installed a captcha test for all new account registration, just a couple of days ago. But, it clearly has only slowed the problem, but not halted it.

Wow, they are persistent little devils, aren't they? I'll bet they're using some form of Amazon Mechanical Turk to pay Pakistanis about 3 cents for every captcha they crack. Next step, I believe, will be adding some "test of intelligence" like "What is the fifth word in this sentence?" for every new account, and possibly for every new-page creation. If that doesn't slow them down, I'm open for suggestions. I'm going to leave in place the recent ones, so that my developer can analyze their process. I don't know what the fascination is with joyful male chickens, anyway. -- MyWikiBiz 13:40, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Spam protection filter

Hi MyWikiBiz! I've been encountering the Spam protection filter. I tried to add an AdBrite of my own and the Spam protection filter was triggered. Also when I tried to use one of the "Add a Directory Listing" for an article template the Spam protection filter was triggered. Am I doing something wrong ? Peter Z. 05:38, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

You're not doing anything wrong. We have been victimized in a collateral way by the Mediawiki developers and the Wikimedia "movement", where they have decided that their interpretation of sites that are "spam" will be promulgated to all users of the Mediawiki software. I have a developer looking into how we either remove or modify that "spam blacklist". Even highly useful sites like Examiner.com and TinyURL.com are blocked. It's yet another example of the tyranny of the Mediawiki hive. They will decide for us which links are worthy of publication! - MyWikiBiz 16:13, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
That's crap! Peter Z. 01:15, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

CheckUser

It's high time a CheckUser is introduced. I see that vandals are not being traced to their original name(s). Without CheckUser, sockpuppet investigations are very hard to carry out. I see so many 'buy X' usernames out there. Even the Sherrod of OhInternet is clever enough to put a CheckUser on her wiki. The wiki was created 4 months ago. 15 times the span of Sherrod's wiki and no check user? No way. See the page on CheckUser for more details. --Fiver7 10:55, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not philosophically interested in spying on my users, as a rule. If many of our users are trying to get Internet consumers to "buy X" product or service, that's okay with me. It's one of the tenets of MyWikiBiz -- you can sell things here. -- MyWikiBiz 12:02, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

But sockpuppetry is the inevitable! Fiver7 (t|c|b) 18:20, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Problems with Robots.txt

Has anyone been messing with Robots.txt? The Web Archive is complaining that it can't find it for this site. Jon Awbrey 06:36, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Seems to be working okay now. Jon Awbrey 20:00, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Email

Hi MyWikiBiz,

I wonder, if you got my second email.LyubaPol 04:06, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I did receive the e-mail, and I replied. -- MyWikiBiz 19:25, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Johann Hari and David Rose

Hi MyWikiBiz. I've started a new article but before I go on with it I'd like to make sure it is OK and my work will not be deleted. Thanks.Wikikiki 23:48, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Wikademia and Self Indulgence

These sites may be take down. This is the warning that they may be taken down.

The operator was banned from another forum, so it will not be announced there. Please feel free to announce this just about anywhere you like.

http://selfindulgence.org/

http://en.wikademia.org/

http://wikademia.org/

Also, keep in mind that all of the content is licensed as CC-BY-SA, so please feel free to copy as much of the content from those sites as you want to other compatibly licensed sites.

They may be kept up, but they also may be shut down. This has been the announcement. Another one will not happen.

Good day and life to you.

My First Article

Please review carefully Directory:Australian Paralympic Committee, my first article. Please tell me if I am doing things correctly. I respect your comments and value your input. Thanks, Jackson 13:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

⚠ 10,000 Edits ⚠

❢❢❢ 10,000 Edits ❢❢❢ Jon Awbrey 18:02, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

You're over 200 edits ahead of me, you dirty rat! -- MyWikiBiz 15:48, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Question for Karen

Hi Greg, is Karen still around? I had a question about how she created that NoNumTOC thing that I use a lot, as I needed to create one on another MediaWiki site. TIA, Jon Awbrey 16:48, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Strange behavior when editing

When editing criticism of Jimmy Wales, i saw your revision partly mangled the text, so I tried to fix it but was unable to. Also, would you check my last two uploads and make sure it's okay to host them here, please? Thanks. :) Badmachine (talk) 22:10, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

We seem to have the "QINU" error in our MediaWiki. I'll see if our developer can fix it. Thanks for the heads up. I think your images should be okay, at least until someone asks me to take them down, anyway. -- MyWikiBiz (talk) 03:13, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
I think we have fixed the UNIQ xxx QINU script error -- it was apparently a problem with an unupdated SpamBlackList extension. -- MyWikiBiz (talk) 11:29, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

WIKIPEDOIA LINK, UNBLOCK IT SO I FIX CORRECTIONS!!!

Don't be so bossy, also be more polite. Delete = from wikipedoia link! Y r u so uncooperative? DID U DELETE IT? Permission to use satirical picture of box?Surely u wont mind that!

Y IS IT SO HARD4U2REMOVE =?
AGAIN Y CANT U REMOVE IT?>
Your question doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps English is not your first language? - MyWikiBiz (talk) 23:34, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
I only used abreviatns. remove = as explained!
WELL?
mywikibiz.com/User:Books/Wikipedoia remove = asap or is that too hard4u?
I just simply said, look at the bottom of the page n delete =, u r making an easy task, very complicated!
Also, check all the pages that your bot removed, just like my good pages, Im sure u lost many other informative articles!
DONT DELETE MY EDITS, IM DOING BEST TO KEEP THEM CLEAN, BUT SCUMBAGS LIKE ANTANDRUS & BSADOWSKI1 DESERVE ALL THE WORSE WORDS IN THE WORLD!
I want the page to look good so delete = asap!
Is this what you wanted done, Mr. Books? - MyWikiBiz (talk) 21:11, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
FINALLY!

VanTucky and hen

I uploaded a larger version of File:VanTucky and hen (Steven Walling).JPG, which includes metadata at the source wiki that did not make it onto the MyWikiBiz file page (unless I'm missing something). It's possible that a wiki setting prevents metadata, or maybe I grabbed the wrong version from ED. If you have any idea why the metadata did not make it over, please let me know if you would. Thanks. :) Badmachine (talk) 02:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I really don't know about how and why photo metadata would or would not transfer from one wiki to another. Sorry, Badmachine. - MyWikiBiz (talk) 02:46, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Whats your problem?

This is correct site mywikibiz.com/0000 now where is my page? Move it Back NOW!!! I dont appreciate such acts, thats one of my most important site u destroyed!

get your act together, WE WILL BE GIVING AWAY TOP 10 REASONS Y NOT TO DONATE TO WIKIPEDOIA, SO CLEAN IT UP!
No problems here. I'm just organizing my website according to how it should be set up. Common-knowledge themes go in Main space. Living individuals and extant businesses go in Directory space. And personal project, theories, and memes go in personal User space. If you can document any legitimate, published references to your 0000 move, then we can consider moving it into Main space. - MyWikiBiz (talk) 20:28, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
It is major move, I'd appreciate it, if you could move it, look at the site & games my group played!
Make sure mywikibiz.com/0000 redirects to new site, also, Sygurd's bios should go on main page, you can check on him in Poland, he is popular!
HEY I ASKED YOU SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT, WHEN WILL U FIX THE SITES?
I just noticed you changed sygurd's page but make sure 0000 site automatically redicrects to proper page!
WELL BEAVER?
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